Comforting and Empowering the Poor Through Christlike Love

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Aixa De Lopez
You can’t really help unless you get into the mess of the relationship, you can’t actually do any sort of Kingdom work without viewing the other as an image bearer. So when you see the image of God in the other, then you can engage in a way that glorifies God in a sustainable

Blair Linne
Well, ladies, here we are, again, to be able to have a conversation. We’re so grateful that we have this podcast glow, which is a podcast from the gospel coalition Podcast Network. We’re for women, right? We live in different places. And yet we have the same goal, which is to glorify Jesus Christ and tell about what he’s doing in our lives and ministries, and what he’s doing around the world. And so today, we’re actually going to be talking about comforting the poor. My name is Blair Lynn, I’m joined by Aixa de Lopez, Soojin Park, and Sharon Dickens, who’s going to be leading our discussion today. So we’re grateful to be here.

Sharon Dickens
I’m not sure if she should let me loose on the main I’m going to try my best to rewire Salford and I, when we were thinking about comfort in the pool, it was one of the few sessions that I thought this is what I’m passionate about. But what I’m passionate about is more thought by is passionate about us comfort in the pool. Well, and this is what I would really love us to think about today. But to sort of give you a bit of background, and I was thinking that the best way to understand my passion is to explain it. So when I was first saved, a my worked for a few days, call it a nonprofit. So as new new believer, I work for a couple of nonprofits, some Christians, some not, but always around people who are experiencing homelessness, and I’ve done that most of my adult life. And and you think the trouble is that all too often. I think we’d served without thinking it through. And so I’ve done in a variety of ways, people that are homeless, and on the street, people are in decent hours, night shelters, all those things. And then fast forward, and all sorts of years. And we come to our church and as a staff team, I’m on staff now. And my job is to think about community work. And our pastor has us looking through on a weekly basis books. And so we’ve gone through this one book called when helping hearts. And I’m reading it and I’m reaching that I’m reaching out myself. So the more I’m reading it, the more I realized and start to question everything that had gone before the way that we’ve been caring for and helping those that were experiencing homelessness, and even the fact that it wasn’t thought through I mean, not once did I and to my shame, not once to think when one of these guys get saved. How do we bring them through discipleship to the point where there could be a potential leader in the church. And so we read this book, it’s a great book. And it started to get me to rethink everything that I had thought about how we serve, how we care for how we’re expected to, and most of all, how we do it without hurting people around us. And so my intention was, all those years. And I mean, you pat yourself on the back. Even though we see we don’t The reality is it makes us feel good. But all those years you’re thinking through and not once a day asked is my my help hurting them. mean is it with all intention she’d gone to serve to care to alleviate and actually in some way, shape or form, she could have made it worse. And so when there’s this one thing this booth Can I actively encourage you guys out there to read it. It’s such a good book. And particularly the first couple of chapters, we’ll put this stuff in the, in the bio at the end, talks about how all our relationships are broken, so uses God Himself others in creation, and in that realization of how sin has impacted that made me realize that all of us are poor, in some way, shape or form. Some of us it might be money, and might be like material things but others are put in the relationship with God and with each other. It with families, you can be the richest man in the planet, but you could be poor in the relationships you’ve got. Or you could be the destitute with and material circumstances but you’re rich in your relationship with God. And so it made us made me realize that actually we weren’t seven in brackets, the poor because we were all poor. And it takes me back to that conversation that we had a couple of podcasts ago about how we show hospitality and so that’s why I want to think through that because it’s a massive subject. Like who Is the poor, or, in fact, no human like seeing the poor, but who is like, we’re going to focus on just the material side of poverty. And as we start to explore some of these questions. And so because we’re from different areas, and poverty looks like different things for all of us, I just wondered ladies in your area, what does material or economic poverty actually look like? So how about you Asia?

Aixa De Lopez
Yeah, I think I represent, in this table part of the poorest of the poor, in some ways, My country has just staggering status of below the line of poverty, in malnutrition in children. In the way I could describe it to you without much research is a family may live in a, you know, tiny, tiny, tiny, one bedroom apartment, you know, six people in the same space, no floor, no plumbing, no, no heat, no, even window sometimes. So no running water, no electricity. And so you can imagine how it might be for a family to raise six kids in a in a, in a place like that. And so, so much just unravels, based on just that description, that situation. Some families have difficulty putting one meal in the Table for one day. So that’s what we’re looking at when we think about material poverty.

Sharon Dickens
And how about some of the way that we you see churches engaging with that and the way that they do mercy ministry or care to or service of those that are in deprived?

Aixa De Lopez
Yeah, in general, I think the approach is very superficial and very paternalistic, I would say, we, they aim at doing good at relieving something, especially around Christmas time around children’s day, they approach the communities, not in a very profound way, not in a very sustainable way. Or even respectful way. I would say this book mentions, you know, it’s basically the savior complex. So you go in there, and you think we are, you know, making paying them, so a fever. And so it’s a very vicious cycle in there, even ministries working in very deprived areas of dumpster areas, and I don’t think is the best model. They’ve been there for a long time. They do a lot of good. It’s a hard topic, and I just don’t see it being the most helpful ways of approaching help. It’s not helpful.

Sharon Dickens
I think that the trouble is that when we start to have this conversation, it can sound like that when we’re having the hard conversation that what you are is against mercy ministry, but that’s not what we’re seeing. What we’re saying by the end of it is actually we are for serving those around those but we would rather you serve well and thoughtfully Think it through. So Player yesterday, we were talking about or in the last podcast, we were talking about the American dream, like you guys have got all our we think you’ve got all that. So television tells us. So what is what is deprivation and poverty look like in your area? And then what are some of the ways that either good or or know that you’ve seen Christians engage with that?

Blair Linne
Yeah, well, I mean, I think it’s helpful to kind of break down like two categories. So you have like absolute poverty, which is severe deprivation. So basic human needs are not met food, water, shelter, you know, education. And then you also have a relative poverty. That’s that. So that is more, you know, when we look in the United States, you have a poverty line or a poverty threshold, you know, so, you know, for a family of four, for example, it would be about $27,000 a year. And if you’re making below that, the government basically says that you’re not able to sustain yourself with all of the things that you need in order to, to live. Now in the United States, there are 37 point 9 million Americans who who do not meet that threshold line, and that’s about 12% of the population, and 12 million of those people are children. And so, and we’re I live so I’m now in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the rate actually is double. So Philly, his poverty rate is 23%. You know, which is it’s it’s double than the US average. And so, you know what we do? At least at our church, I would say, I think that we do a really good job of, of having mercy ministry. I’ve been in churches where they’ll just kind of pay a bill, you know, kind of throw money at the person and not really address. What is the issue kind of underlining the reason why you’re in this situation. And our church tries to do a good job of when someone comes from the community and says, you know, I have this need, I need this bill paid. I imagine there’ll be a sense of discernment to say, Should we just automatically pay that bill, but the main goal is to try to pull them into the community of the church to say like, there’s benefits to the local church, not that you attend a local church, you know, to get money or to get your bills paid. But like if you’re part of this community, and you need the community, which I think is what is the emphasis in the book when helping hurts, which is so helpful that like, you need to be restored to God, you need to be restored to, you know, maybe your family, what is your relationship, like with yourself, like what’s going on. And I think that that often does not get addressed. And one of the things that’s interesting is when you think about homelessness, I went through homelessness, being raised by a single mom, there were times where we had to live in a shelter when I was coming up. And often there is a breakdown in relationships that people don’t consider, the reason that a lot of times people are homeless is they have no one else to turn to. So you know, you don’t have family that you can call, or maybe your family is just as impoverished as you are. And a lot of the reasons why some people do make it is because they have someone that they can call, they can call their parents, they can call, you know, and say, Look, I’m struggling, can you help me out. And so I think restoring relationship is really important. We also have a benevolence fund. And even over COVID, our church just expanded that fund to care primarily for the members of the church. But they do consider those from the community as well. So I’ve actually been encouraged by what I see our church doing again, and we have a small church, it’s about 60 to 70 members. But I think our benevolence fund is about $10,000, you know, this past year, so really seeking to be generous, and, you know, show the love of Christ, through mercy ministry and that way.

Soojin Park
For me, I mean, I live in one of the richest counties in the whole country in Northern Virginia. And so obviously, poverty looks different as well. And I think the national percentage for children in the poverty line is around 16%. But in our county, it’s about 8%. So about 8% of children under 18, fall below the poverty line. And so it’s one of those things where if you, you could easily go about your life without ever witnessing it. And so I think it’s really up to the churches to be very aware of the fact that no, there actually are people with very real needs in the community. And I think mercy ministry is something that our church in particular, and I think other churches in our area, made up of mostly, you know, middle, middle upper class families. I think it’s a continual struggle of how do we do this? Well, right. Because even for my own church, I think in the past, we’ve been very project based seasonal base, we had two giving campaigns, and it’s easy for people to give and kind of forget, but we’ve been moving towards more of a long term sustainable model where we partner with a local school. So in America, we have schools that are considered Title One schools, which means a certain percentage of the students in that school qualify as low income, and they depend on free or reduced lunches in the school. And that’s how they measure it. And so we’ve partnered with a title one school that’s actually only like 10 minutes away from our church and drink. How it happened is during the pandemic, all the kids who depended on the school for breakfast and lunch, were no longer getting meals. And so what we started doing is providing lunches for those families who would normally depend on the schools for their regular meals. And it’s through that we started building a relationship with the school, we started a tutoring program, we started like an after school program, and we’ve kept this relationship going. And a lot of the members of our church they, I think, through COVID, they had a bit of a awakening as well that this just giving once in a while is not sustainable. And we have to address the spiritual poverty as well. Right. So and so as we started doing these, like lunches, more of our members showed up and started evangelizing, started praying, started asking the people, families who are coming, especially the mothers who are coming, how we can be praying for them, inviting them to our church. And so I see efforts being made in that way. I think our church and our area so has A long way to go. And this is something that we talked about a few days ago too. But you know, the difference in some people may be called to be very generous with their resources. And I think our church has a lot of members who are very generous with their resources, but others are not. And how do we encourage some to give more with their time and energy? And how do we encourage others to be more generous with their resources? And I think that’s a big conversation too, right? Like, how do you discern maybe where you’re called to give? What areas of your life?

Sharon Dickens
Actually, that’s a great question, OPPO answering it really is true, maybe pianist, I mean, God’s given us all, and loads of gifts. And some of those are blessed with not me lots of money, and are amazing stewards of that. And for many of us who are in full time ministry, we have benefited from that, and we are so grateful. But there are other times where we, God has given gifts of ways to serve. And when it particularly comes to Mercy ministry, I think a lot of Christians think it is an easy way to serve, because it’s an action. But if it’s an action without thought through, it’s not just about serving some soup and sandwiches, there’s actually more like you’re seeing guys getting alongside and having conversations. So how do we encourage members in our congregation to step out their comfort zone? And like, serve in different ways? Or even question what their stewardship has.

Soojin Park
I mean, I feel like, you know, sharing, you always bring it back to discipleship. And I feel like that’s kind of the heart of it. Right? I think at the end of the day, our people have to be discipled. To know, I, you know, I shall always brings everything back to adoption. And I think it’s similar here, and that if we don’t recognize our own poverty, and what Christ has given to us so freely, I feel like at the core, if you don’t understand that, it’s not going to be an overflow, you’re not going to have that natural desire to give and recognize.

Blair Linne
And one of the things I wanted to say to you, I think, is knowing the needs in your community. Absolutely. Do you have to be in your community, it’s so easy to kind of put yourself in a Christian bubble, and the only people that you’re around are maybe even your church members. But what does it look like to engage the people around you? You know, for example, there’s a woman shelter woman and Children’s Shelter, just a few blocks from our church. And we’re able to partner with them, the women because it is a Christian based or faith based shelter, they have to attend church, you know, so we have this partnership where, you know, the women will come, you know, to our church, and we’ll go there to the shelter, and we will give a meal, but we have also taught classes, you know, on parenting or, you know, opportunities to share the gospel or do Bible study. And it’s just a great witnessing tool to be able to come alongside and even some of those women have chosen to continue to attend our church and join our church, you know, so it’s been really sweet. But yeah, what does it look like? And I know, it can be hard, depending upon how far away you live from your church, some people travel long distances, but still, like thinking through, okay, what’s happening in the schools? I mean, your church has to be aware of what’s going on in order to say, you know, in order for them to say Sujin, like, we’re going to give money, you know, to support these children. So I think that is really important. It’s just knowing what’s actually happening. Who’s here?

Aixa De Lopez
Yeah, I think it’s a blessing with with the when the pastor’s hearts are focused on real discipleship, because you’re not afraid for your people to expand and go outside of the walls of the church, to actually be the hands and feet of Jesus, because they’re going to deepen the relationship with Jesus, you can’t really help unless you get into the mess of the relationship, which is key here. When you, you can’t one another, if you if you see the other as inferior. So when you see the image of God in the other, then you can engage in a way that glorifies God in a sustainable, you can’t you can’t actually do any sort of Kingdom work without viewing the other as an image bearer. So that to me is key and I’m so proud and so happy so so very grateful to God, that our pastors and Nicolas Reforma have actually designated a portion of you know, the payroll is for a team to be, you know, on staff, caring for the vulnerable. So we have a program that has invested in first doing the homework of doing you know, making good questions, asking good questions, what what is the need, getting to know the neighbors, you know, so we’re now doing tutor tutoring some of the children investing in some families that are actually you know, doing the work with the Kids and so we’re into preventing a lot of the separation that might happen. And I am so grateful for that. Because, you know, the church knows that a lot of the, you know, tithes and offerings go toward that kind of work in I’m just so glad because it, it does shine a light. And it deepens our relationship with Jesus.

Sharon Dickens
That’s That’s true. And I think one of the things when we’re doing any kind of ministry, Mercy ministry, particularly where poverty is that we get so wrapped up in what we’re doing that if it’s not working, we never question it. And so part of why it’s, I’m so passionate about it is, is mostly the mistakes that are made in the early days. Um, you know that I mean, your true, I tried to hide the fact that discipleship, some actual true passion, but we all know. But the reality is that there was this one woman that I was really trying to get alongside in our community and come at it from a worker perspective, because I’d been in that sort of area for such a long time. And the dynamic and our relationship was like you were talking about Aisha was unbalanced. And so she saw me as the site, the service provider, like, if we’re going out for a cup of tea MPN. She’d be like, when are we? When are you taking me for breakfast? I mean, all those things. And I learned really quickly that what that done is that closed, my eyes served her. But I was only seven our physical needs, that the door because of their relationship dynamic had been close to proper deep evangelical conversation. So it was hard to talk about the gospel, when all she really thought about was me meeting her needs. And so changing that dynamic was hard. You can’t it’s hard to turn the tide, once you’ve, you’ve gone in that direction. But making sure that I thought through what I did two simple things. So the next time I engaged with women, I drove them to the food pantry, instead of giving them food they both receive. So everything that needs to be done physically is done. But my relationship is intact. And so I’m still seen as their friend, the one that they’re hanging out with the one who is shared in life with them and has the right because we’re friends to talk about the deep, heavy stuff and share the gospel with them. And so those simple things thinking through, but to get to that point, we need to admit those mistakes first,

Blair Linne
it’s interesting, because what you’re doing is you’re restoring their dignity to some degree and like, you know, and even the dignity of work. There’s a an article that was really wonderful on the gospel coalition called why it’s better to trade than to give by Justin lowness. And, you know, he talks about that, you know, in Yes, there will be certain circumstances where, you know, we’ll just need to give, you know, an, or meet an immediate need, but what does it look like to actually encourage someone and help them, you know, to learn the value and the dignity of work. And, you know, he talked about, like, the gleaning laws, like we talked about, and how, you know, the Israelites were to leave that seed and leave their land and allowing those who had need to be able to go, but they had to gleam they had to pick that whatever the crop was. And he, you know, in the article, he talks about how there’s been a reduction in global poverty since 1990. And it’s due to trades. And, you know, we’ve maybe all bought something that’s fair trade, you know, so let’s say Nairobi, you know, where women in that country or women in Kenya might, you know, you know, create jewelry or baskets, or you know, or maybe coffee, you know, and that be used as a way to provide jobs for them, and income for them and it restores the dignity of work. And so I just think it’s a beautiful testament to

Sharon Dickens
a massive opportunity for us as Christians to buy sustainably and think through why we’re shopping. I mean, we spent time over breakfast talking about this, but just that like let’s even the simplest things think through what we’re doing. Um, I want to do big picture stuff just as we sort of come into land and change the conversation a little bit so in your context, what kind of other like types of poverty have you seen? So in Scotland, we were talking over this over breakfast as well I was sharing it with you you get illegal you should share this. So I’m gonna bid in Scotland, we noticed that actually, one of the biggest thing for young women was period poverty to some of our women just didn’t have access to. And so over a couple of years there was people come campaigned against it. And now in Scotland, when all women can access any any hygiene products, feminine hygiene products free and so there’s evenly low sea and you can go into the supermarket and go I can’t remember what it is. But I’ll just make it up now. So you can go over to like customer services and said, Oh, MIDI sent me. And she’ll give you a little bag of everything that you need. But it’s that thought of one simple thing that was preventing girls from going to school, preventing them from getting education preventing them from participating in with our friends in life, because they just didn’t have anything. So they stayed home, and ashamed also, to deal with it, like one massive thing, but one tiny thought can make a difference. So how about you guys? What Bo? And your context? Assume I bet you, we’ve seen other types of poverty.

Soojin Park
Yeah, I thought a little bit about this question. When we were having the conversation, and I was trying to think, you know, am I thinking of my Virginia context, am I thinking of like my Korean American community? And I, when I think about the just Asian American community in general, I think there’s a lot of actually, material wealth that’s there. I think a lot of Asian Americans have, you know, gotten achieved that American dream have done well for themselves. But I see a lot of relational poverty. I think that cultural divide between the generations is so deep, that there are so many families that are even though they’re intact, they’re not actually together. They’re very fractured. There’s, it’s almost like a running joke that, you know, second generation Korean Americans, you never grew up hearing your parents tell you, you that they love you. It’s just like a common thing. And so I do think there’s a lot of relational poverty there that’s caused by language barrier, cultural barriers, that’s present in a lot of immigrant homes. I think not even just Asian American. And so

Sharon Dickens
what can the impact does that have on a family then?

Soojin Park
Yeah, I mean, so many as you could think of, I think it’s almost as if, you know, I know a lot of families that are, again, intact legally, but they’re not together emotionally, spiritually, in that manner. And so I think there are a lot of emotionally orphaned friends I have, who have never really had close relationships with their families, their parents, even though they, they have lived with their parents. And there’s so many people that I think that going through their 20s and 30s, as they have children, and they get married, they have to go through so much healing themselves. And so, yeah, I mean, it’s, again, it’s almost like a running joke in our culture, right? You’ll, you’ll hear about, like, you just never grew up hearing your parents tell you, you love you. And it’s like a widely known thing. And so, yeah, I think there’s a lot of relational baggage that’s still to be healed within my community. In that sense.

Sharon Dickens
It sounds like it could be quite lonely and isolating for a lot of people.

Soojin Park
Yeah, I think it is.

Sharon Dickens
What about you? Blair?

Blair Linne
Yeah, I actually was gonna also say relational poverty. And I’m just kind of thinking more generally speaking, in the United States, you know, overall, when you compare it to other countries, there is a lot of material wealth. But as it comes down to being able to actually have real connections with other people, you know, when I talk with even women that I’m discipling everyone is desiring more depth, everyone’s desiring, you know, you know, just genuine friendship and wanting to go deep and be known. And, and it’s, I think, maybe the pandemic also has kind of, you know, cause that to even be much worse. But yeah, just the sense of loneliness and isolation. And, and so people are, you know, they’re saying, We desire this, but it’s like, everyone’s desiring the same thing. But it’s hard to bridge that relational gap. And so, yeah, so that’s what I see. When I look around.

Aixa De Lopez
I wouldn’t be bringing him back to something so basic. I see what to melons, of course, have relational poverty as well. But I go back to the story of shoes.

Sharon Dickens
There’s a surprise.

Aixa De Lopez
Yes. Well, I have a friend context

Blair Linne
for anyone who’s listening. Why do you say that?

Sharon Dickens
I used to spend all our time Taylor telling us about our thrift store bargains, which happened to be $3 shoes.

Aixa De Lopez
I know. I know. We have wonderful thrift shops and what the mullah and I’ve been bragging on it. So yes, yes, that’s the context. I’m gonna tell you a better story than that, though. One of my friends I have a brother lives in a very poor community or ravine in my in my I city. In he’s a shoe maker, he’s an ex gang member, the learned how to make shoes. So he does. And then how the Lord works things out another one of my friends who’s theta, I’ve talked to you guys about her. During our time together here. She has been working in that ravine for 25 years. And she is just a ministry that I so much respect because she based it bases it on relationships, so she visits and she knows the story of the people. And in she met my friend, Otto, Otto, the shoe maker. And they just made an explosion, because a lot of the children in the community didn’t go to school, simply because they didn’t have shoes. And so they got together in by donations, she commissioned him to make the shoes for so many of the kids around there. So they could go to school. So they have a good pair of shoes for the whole year. And they can attend school, we don’t even think about these things when you are in another really reality. But that’s the reality around my communities, the communities that are around me, so many of the kids and the lady that actually helps me at home, because in what my life is not unusual for you to have a helper at home. And she tells me her stories, I love listening to her stories I’ve learned so much from her. And she says she stopped attending school because she was ashamed that she didn’t have shoes. And so, you know, that kind of awareness brings you to a very humble state of just all in thinking, this is not hard to, you know, fulfill this need. And again, how do we do it without it been hurtful, but they got together. And it just it was beautiful. It it still is

Sharon Dickens
or embracing. So I mean, what was I mean, our story is amazing. And but what really sings out to me is the fact that she engaged some someone within someone within the area, and she fed into the service that he was providing, so that he could then care for those that are around them. That’s most

Aixa De Lopez
wonderful part of the of the whole thing, the dynamic. He lives there, in he buys his materials from people that are around that area. And he still lives there, like his home is better now because he has a better income. But he stayed there in he still manufactures shoes. So I love what the god what God does with people that are just aware of their surroundings and willing to do something with what they have.

Soojin Park
But I think that’s just to piggyback off of that. I think one thing that when I used to work in nonprofit, I saw a lot too with Christian well meaning Christians, assuming that they’re being innovative and bringing some new solution. And I think it’s just so important for well meaning Christians to remember, there’s probably someone in that context who’s already doing good work, that’s probably better off than you are. And I think the best thing we can do as churches, I have resources is to go walk alongside and ask how we can help them who are already doing that work. I think that’s so important. Amen.

Blair Linne
There was one other poverty that I had in mind was spiritual poverty that we see in our country. And I think sometimes, too, when it comes to someone who is dealing with material poverty, we correlate that with spiritual poverty. We assume that because you’re struggling, or you know, because you’re dealing in this season of poverty, that must mean that your relationship with the Lord has automatically broken. And the reality is, you might know the Lord more than I do you know what I mean? Like you may love the Lord more than we do. And there’s so much to learn. There’s so much to grow. Yeah. So I think that’s another element that’s missing in our society. So we need the Lord more.

Soojin Park
Yeah. Well, thank you, Sharon, for leading us I feel like I learned a lot today just sitting here and listening to you all. So I’m going to close out today’s episode with our favorite shine time shining our light on the differences. And so today’s question is, what is your favorite place that you’ve visited inside your own country? And why Sharon, do you want to start?

Sharon Dickens
I was thinking about this because there’s so many places. I mean, I love the Isla Hatice just because it’s bleak. And I love Inverness, because it’s beautiful, but I actually just went for the beach. And so I live 20 minutes from the sea but it The further east coast you go, it’s amazing. And it’s just there’s something about the roar of the sea that I really love about my, my country, we are an island. So pretty much within easy reach, there’s always a piece of ocean. And so all the places that I think through that I love are usually because they’re next to the sea,

Aixa De Lopez
I have to say the sea as well. We have a beach about two and a half hours from the city without traffic. And we have black sand beaches because of the volcanoes. And some of the fondest memories I have of my father, my mom, as a kid are at the beach. And now with my kids too. It’s just fantastic. And I collect seashells, John Piper, forgive me. I love it. So I have jars full of them. And it’s just so simple. It’s so soothing. And it just, you know, it heals you, in so many ways.

Sharon Dickens
It’s also a great place for kids to play.

Aixa De Lopez
So I would say

Blair Linne
it’s great. I would say the place that I have visited that is, I guess been most striking for me is the Grand Canyon. Yeah, I. So my husband and I, after our honeymoon, we drove across country. And I remember he was driving. So I’m sitting in the passenger side, just looking at him chatting away. And I am just my breath is taken away. Because behind him as he’s driving, I see this canyon. And it’s just it’s hard to describe how beautiful how beautiful it is. But it’s you know, 277 miles long. So it’s just massive, and gorgeous and breathtaking. And, and it just shows I think it it reminds me of how small I am. How grand the Lord is how he’s in control. So I would say the Grand Canyon.

Soojin Park
I thought a lot about his question I thought of maybe I’ll do something like big that made me feel small. But I realized something about myself, as I was thinking about this question is I feel like I don’t really have attachment to places. And it’s much more an attachment to people. So this is really cheesy, but I thought of where is the one place, I would just want to go right now. And I feel like it’s just my parents home that I grew up in. Because they’re they’ve been there for 20 years. I feel like, you know, when I was living there as a kid, all I wanted to do was grow up and leave the house. But now as an adult, all I want to do is go home and have my mom’s home cooked meal and feel like a kid, you know, and I feel like that’s the place I feel safe. And I feel welcomed. And yeah, I feel like for me, it’s I’ve been to a lot of places in the US. But when I think of the one place I would want to be right now. It’s probably just my parents home.

Sharon Dickens
I think all of us his parents are sitting thinking I wish my kids think

Aixa De Lopez
it’s great. So we come to a close. And we thank God for this time, so much rich conversation, and learning about each other and mostly about the work that the Lord is doing around the world and helping us each each of us in our little nook world. So we just want to remind you, you are the light of the world. That city that is set up on a hill shall not be hidden. Neither do men light a candle and put it on the basket, but on a light stand and it gives light to all who are in the house. In the same way. Let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. We hope you join us next week for another episode of glow.

Speaker 5
Glow is a part of the gospel coalition Podcast Network to listen to more shows by TGC visit tgc.org/podcasts