Encouragement for Ministry Wives

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Kristen Wetherell
My name is Kristen Weatherall. I have been a pastor’s wife for about 10 years. I’m married to Brad, who is the campus pastor at our church the orchard in Illinois. I’m a mom of three, and I’m a writer. I’ve written books like help for the hungry soul, hope when it hurts, and most recently, the board book series for the Bible tells me so. Christy anyabuille here in the middle, welcome Christy. She’s a pastor’s wife and the mother of Ophea Eden and Titus. She joyfully supports her husband of 32 years, the Beatty as he pastors, I know right, as he pastors Anacostia River church in southeast Washington, DC. Christy is the author of the Bible study, delighting in God’s law, the book literarily how understanding Bible genres transforms Bible study. And the editor of his testimonies, MyHeritage, women of color on the Word of God, Christine Hoover on the end over here, serves as the women’s ministry associate at the Austin stones Northwest congregation. She hosts the ministry wives podcast and has authored seven books, including messy, beautiful friendship, how to thrive as a pastor’s wife and you are not forgotten. Christine is married to Kyle, a pastor at the Austin Stone and they have three boys. And last, but certainly not least is Glenna Marshall to my left, pastor’s wife and mother of two sons. Glenna is the author of the promise is his presence everyday faithfulness and memorizing Scripture. She writes regularly on biblical literacy, suffering and the faithfulness of God, and is a member of Grace Bible Fellowship in Sikeston, Missouri. Well, Glenna, we’re going to start with you this afternoon. We ministry wise. We have our hands full with our families, our churches and our other vocations and callings. How can we be sure that we are actually walking with Jesus and not just doing things for Jesus?

Glenna Marshall
I think that if we are not undergirding our ministry with our faithfulness and our relationship with Christ, we will struggle. I have been a pastor’s wife for 20 years, and we’ve been at our church for 19 of those years, and my first probably five to seven years, I had no Bible study habits. I did not read the word regularly. I was too busy. I was lazy. I didn’t know exactly how to study the Bible, and just, you know, I was the pastor’s wife and did not have Bible study habits. So if you are feeling guilty of that, you’re not alone. And I have to tell you, I was unprepared for the trials of ministry, the suffering of ministry. I was unprepared when people came to me for advice or wisdom. I had nothing to give them. Now, thankfully, the Lord has drawn me into just a deep love for scripture. I love to study his word. I’m so thankful he has changed the trajectory of my life there. I have nothing to give my people that is wiser than God’s word, I have no well to draw from, besides scripture, besides spending time with the Lord in prayer, I could do a lot of things for the church, and I do a lot of things for the church, but those things will be shallow and exhausting. Thank you, and lead to burnout faster if I am not regularly drinking from the well of Scripture, if I am not nourishing my relationship with Jesus, because there’s ministry, but you, primarily, first and foremost, are a believer in Christ. You have a relationship with Jesus that must be fed. You must feed your faithfulness to the Lord. It is the only way to withstand the trials of ministry, the criticisms that you or your husband or your family may receive. You have nowhere else to go that’s safer than to the Lord. And I think it’s good to keep in mind too, that as you grow in your relationship with Jesus, as you are seeking to nurture your faithfulness, nurture that relationship, that he understands what it’s like to feel lonely, to be betrayed and to suffer in front of others. And so I just would encourage you, if you do not have regular habits of spending time with the Lord in Scripture and in prayer, please, please, please, if you do nothing else before you live this, leave this weekend. Make time for that.

Kristen Wetherell
One of the scriptures that we looked at as we were preparing for this panel discussion was from Isaiah 50, verse four. It reads this, the Lord God has given me the tongue. Long of those who are taught that I may know how to sustain with a word, him or her, who is weary Morning by morning, he awakens. He awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught Sisters, we are sustaining with our words, with our lives, those who are weary in our homes, in our congregations, and so what a privilege it is to first come to the Lord and to be sustained by Him in order that we can then pour out well. On that note, we all need support, right? We’re not exempt from that. We all have weaknesses. We have doubts and struggles like anyone else. But is it actually possible for us to have good friends in our church? Christine, is it possible, and if it is possible, is it wise? Can you give us some counsel about pursuing friendships in the church?

Christine Hoover
Yes, I love how Chris You looked at me like, what’s she gonna say?

I do think it’s might hit him, yeah, I do. I do think it is possible. I do think it’s possible. Not only is it possible, I think it’s necessary. I think a lot of times, as pastors wives, we can think of ourselves as exceptions. We are exceptions within our church. We can’t have what other women have in terms of community. And I think that that is a it, that is a lie that keeps us not only outside of community, but keeps us stunted in our growth. And so when we, when we, when I say, it’s not just a possible but it is necessary. I mean that we are Christians first, and so we need the sanctification of the body. And in order for us to be sanctified or to practice the one anothers of scripture or to receive, receive the one anothers of Scripture, we have to be in relationships with people within our church community. Now I say it’s necessary, but I also think it it’s wise that we be wise in the way that we interact with women in our church and develop friendship. So over the years, and we even my husband, I’ve been in ministry for 24 years now, over the years, I’ve kind of developed some some principles, or some ways that I think about developing friendship within the church. The first thing is, and this has been super helpful for me, is to be able to distinguish between relationships and friendship. So we have a lot of relationships. Really, everyone we interact within the church. We want to know their name, we want to serve them well. We want to honor them. But just because we have a relationship with someone does not mean that we have a friendship with that person. And so what’s the distinction? The distinction is mutuality. So most of the time, as pastor’s wives, we interact with women, not in a mutual relationship. We interact with them in some sort of ministry, ministerial way, and that’s okay, and that’s good, but it helps me. When I’m going into an interaction with a woman, let’s say she asked me to get coffee, it helps me to kind of distinguish, is this a ministry relationship, or is this a friendship? Because I’m going to interact with that person a little bit differently. One of the ways I’m going to interact with them differently is the expectation that I bring to that coffee. I’m not gonna expect her to ask me any questions or to get to know me. I’m gonna I’m gonna pour myself out for her. And so the distinction between relationship and friendship, that mutuality, I want to be looking for who are women who who can handle being my friend, meaning when I share something with them, right? When I share something with them that they don’t get the deer in the headlights look or like, Oh, my pastor’s wife just told me she’s human, and I don’t know what to do with that. That’s not a person, and that’s okay. I don’t I don’t have to be angry about that or frustrated, but they’re just showing me what kind of relationship we have, and that’s not going to be a friendship, and that’s okay. But if there are women who return my questions, who ask me questions that let me know they think of me as a Christian, as a human being first, and are okay with me, kind of letting my humanity show those are potential friends, and those are people that I want to spend time with. And so that for me, that distinction has been helpful. A few other things have been helpful. One is just to take it slow with what we share with people. If I don’t know yet where that person is a relationship or a friendship I’m probably not going to share as much with them. At some point, I’m going to have to test the waters a little bit by being vulnerable with them, but I’m going to take it real slow with people before and just watch who they are. How do they carry themselves? Are they gossips? Are they people who hold confidence, who serve and who. Seek the Lord. And so they encouraged me to seek the Lord and to pursue him. They’re gonna turn my attention to the Lord when I share something. Those are the people that I’m looking for. And I wanna be wise in what I share when I do share. So sometimes, you know, I have really good friends within the church, but I don’t there’s certain things that would not be helpful for me to share with them, because it would be dishonoring to my husband. It might be dishonoring to someone else in our church. It’s just not something that I can share the details of. But I can still share about those things, generally, about the way that what I’m experiencing, if I’m feeling discouraged, if I’m feeling overwhelmed because of a certain situation, I don’t have to tell about the situation, but I can tell about how I’m feeling, what I need prayer for, and a wise friend and someone, if we’ve chosen wisely, they’re not going to press for the details. They’re not going to press for more than they than they need to know. The another thing that’s helped me is I want to be this kind of friend. I want to be trustworthy, that I keep confidences, that that i i push those women to seek the Lord, just as I am hoping that they will do. And I think for the deepest struggles, you know, when you go through seasons of ministry where you are just like I am, I am really struggling, let’s say, with criticism of our husbands, something like that, where we can’t share that with our friends in the church, I always go to people outside of my church. I have friends outside of my church who are pastors wives who understand, and I can call and tell them, and they don’t know the people, and so I can share more openly with them. I think it’s good to have those friends as well that we’re cultivating. And then finally, I think what’s helped me is to not use the term friend loosely. Sometimes we can call people friends, or says, Hey, friends, hey. You know, that’s telling people something. And so I want to use that word really, really carefully. And in fact, I think sometimes the women who we most need and who are valuable friends to us. They’re people who tend to give us a little space. They see what it means to be a pastor’s wife a little bit, and they they don’t want to intrude, and they don’t want to take up too much of our time. And so it’s helpful for I found to go to them and say, I think of you as a friend. You are my friend, and just kind of label it so that they know how I feel about them. So those are things that have helped

Kristen Wetherell
me so wise. And one of those sensitive topics that can sometimes be hard is our marriages. Christy, you have been married to a pastor for over 32 years. Praise the Lord for that. And having our marriage on display in the church isn’t always easy. So what wisdom? What encouragement would you give to the ministry wife who is in a hard season of marriage?

Kristie Anyabwile
I think, first of all, I want to, I love my husband. He’s so cute, and I just got to say 30 something years. I forget how many years until he reminds me, but I know it’s over 30 and we like to still be consider ourselves newlyweds. He’s so cute. Anyways, to the topic, I think first I want to challenge a little bit the mindset of having our marriages on display. Then I want to challenge it from the standpoint of, if you are feeling like your marriage is on display, I think I would encourage you to explore why you feel that way. Are you feeling like your marriage is on display because you have some sort of like you’re trying to live up to some perceived or even real expectation that you feel like you’re supposed to live up to. So I want to be a regular old Christian in the pew. And I know there are some ways that I can’t be that, but there are a ton of ways that I can. And so one of the ways that I practice not having my marriage perceived to be on display is that I practice some of the things that Christine was just saying. You know, I disciple my friendship. So I’m the other way. I’m like, You’re a friend, you’re a friend. Everybody’s a friend. But I also we spend a lot of time kind of discipling people into the kind of friendships that we need, right? And so if you come across someone sort of like, you know, Christine, who’s like, you tell them something, and they’re kind of like deer in the headlights, and I like, Oh, dang, you’re human, then I think you can invite them in and said, what I need from you right now is, or I need a friend who can, or I’m looking for someone who will and and so in that way, you’re kind of discipling people into the kind of relationship that you need. And I would also say just echoing what you were talking about in regards to being discerning. About who you share certain things with, but I will say that as you’re discerning, you also want to be authentic. Well, we’re well familiar, you know, very familiar with many pastoral families that are struggling in a lot of ways, and women who feel silenced or that they don’t have an outlet, whether you know it’s a sin issue or if it’s a personal issue or a physical issue, or whatever it is, I think we need to find a way to have a voice about the things that are difficult in our marriages. And so yes, if you have someone that you can go to outside of the church, great, I just kind of use a little a grid for that myself. So we encourage the elders in our church, or we encourage the elders wives in our churches, any A, R, C, Pastor wives in here, yes, okay, we encourage the elder wives in our church to tell on their husbands. So, and I’ll give an example, I’m gonna call him out. Pastor D, he’s a workaholic, and he is so passionate about very many things in regards to ministry, but he has a hard time resting and taking and it affects his health sometimes. And so his wife, Sister Tasha, she will come and say, Pastor t you need to talk to you need to talk to pastor D like he, you know, he’s not resting, he’s overworking. He needs a break. And then my husband will step in as a as a friend, as a fellow elder, as a ministry partner, and encourage him to get the rest that he needs. So I think there’s a lot of discipleship that can be done in regards to when we’re having difficulties in our marriages. And so what I want to say in terms of action steps, like, what do we do? What? What can we do when we’re you know, things aren’t going well at home. One, go to Jesus. Go to Jesus in prayer, go to Jesus in reliance on the Holy Spirit, ask him for help. Make him first in in your day and throughout your day. And just really, you know, as the adage goes, take it to the Lord in prayer. And then I would say, go to Jesus. But also go to community for accountability, for prayer, for support, if you don’t have that community again, I would say, disciple your way into it, you know, let people know what you need and what you’re looking for. And if you’re not currently in a difficult season, I would say, start building the scaffolding for support that you will need at a later time, right? So be authentic, be discerning, but start building that scaffolding now and then, of course, go to your husband, talk and pray through whatever the difficulty is, if he’s not willing or able to hear or listen, bring in another elder, as I just said, or leader in the church who can support you. And then I would say, go to Jesus, go to your community, go to your husband, and then go within yourself, do some self reflection on the source of the difficulty. Is it stress? Is it the need for a break? Is it a sin? Issue? Is it hormones? Amen. So there are all kinds. Is it with your children or, you know, extended family care and those kinds of things like really look within yourself to try to discern the source of the difficulty, and then that will give you a little balance to know where do I need to go to get the help that I need?

Kristen Wetherell
Something you said on our front row seat interview, I’ve not forgotten you said, No secrets, no secrets between you and your husband. And I think that is so helpful, such a wonderful guideline to remember. And unfortunately, we are seeing we have seen marriages fall apart. And another encouragement along those lines is if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with each other. Don’t be ashamed to come into the light sooner rather than later, because you might be a little bit embarrassed and there might be a little bit of hurt, but there will be a lot of embarrassment and a lot of hurt if you don’t do that soon. So walk in the light, because Jesus is faithful. Well, Glenna, speaking of kids, let’s talk about PKS, pastors kids. At some point our kids will hear something like this. Message, be good, behave. You’re the pastor’s kid. What do you think of that message, and what do our kids need from us on the home front?

Glenna Marshall
Yeah, I think the reality is that your church is watching you parent, and that’s hard. But the other reality is, is that if you feel that your children have pressure on them to. Who behave better than all the other kids in the church because they are pastors kids. Sometimes that pressure comes from you and it is projected onto your church members. I will never forget a difficult parenting situation. I mean, one of my kids just clocked another kid in the foyer in front of a lot of people. I mean, he was five, so, I mean, it was not like he was 15, but it was incredibly embarrassing. And I knew that in that moment, the way that I reacted was going to influence the way that other people reacted to my children’s disobedience in the church. And I really struggled, and I just assumed that everyone watching and that every person that goes to my church thinks I’m a a terrible mother who can’t control her children and B that my kids should be better than they are. And I remember sitting and talking to my counselor, and yes, this is an encouragement that sometimes in ministry you need counseling to help you work through some of these things. And I’m talking to my counselor, and he said to me, has anyone ever actually said you’re doing a terrible job parenting these preachers kids? And I was like, Well, no, but I know they’re thinking that. I know it. And he said, Glenna, you are presuming ill will from your church. You are presuming that they are thinking the worst of you, and that is unkind. I was like, wait a minute, this isn’t about me. This is about them, and but it actually was about me. And he told me, he gave me some fantastic advice. He’s a Christian, and he encouraged me. He said, how you respond to your children in a church setting, in the way that they behave, the way that they live, react, respond. Your church is going to pick up on the way that you respond, and they’re going to treat your children the same way. So when it comes to one of these situations where your kid melts down in the middle of the service, he said, what I want you to do is, I want you to pretend like there is no one in the room except for you and that child, you are his mother, and it is your job to disciple him, to love Jesus and to want to obey. All that matters in that moment is his heart being shaped. Everybody else in the room does not matter, does not matter at all, and it should not influence the way that you parent your children. And so that has been a huge shift for me in my parenting, and literally, I mean having a kiddo who’s a little bit hyperactive most much of the time, one of my kids, we’re in that situation a lot, and I want church to be a place where he is free to mess up and and then freely receives forgiveness and restoration. Because I want my kids to love church. I don’t want them to resent the church. And so I have noticed that the way that I respond to my kids, I watch my church members respond in kind, and if I am gracious with my children, and sometimes there are issues you do have to address, and sometimes you have to wait till you get home, but the way that it is okay for me to be embarrassed, you know, like my kids messing up is not a reflection of me as a person and a human, like they’re little humans, and they have got to grow and learn just like I do. And so I have learned from my counselor, from talking with more experienced moms, that I need to let my kids mess up. I need to extend grace to them, and I need to teach them at church is a safe place. If church is not safe for us to screw up, where can we screw up? I mean, church should be the place where we receive grace and forgiveness and restoration. And so I have learned that if I am doing that one on one with each of my children, my church is watching that, and they are going to respond in kind

Kristen Wetherell
that is beautiful. I’m taking that away with me, as if no one else is in the room. Parent, my children like that. Amen. Amen. Well, I imagine there are sisters here in this room with us today who are discouraged, who are exhausted and maybe even burnt out when it comes to serving your churches. Christine, maybe the sister has spread herself too thin. Maybe she’s spiritually exhausted. What is her hope?

Christine Hoover
I mean, discouragement is the lifelong battle for for those of us in ministry, I believe. So I asked myself a few questions to help diagnose my discouragement. So maybe this will be helpful for you as well. Is just to ask myself, what is actually happening. And then two, how have I been responding that’s been unhelpful to that. And then three, what is true? And how do I respond based upon what’s true? So the first question, what is happening? Sometimes what is happening is actually discouraging. There are real things happening in our ministry that’s discouraging. A friend walks away from the faith, or maybe some unforeseen circumstances have come in, and all the good plans that you. You and your husband have for your church, have had to be put on the back burner. Things like that are actually discouraging, and so I’ll talk in a minute about responding to that. But then sometimes, when I ask myself what is happening, I realize that I’m discouraged because of some things going on in my own heart, things like I’m looking for appreciation, and I’m not getting it. I’m looking for a little self glory here, and why is the Lord preventing that? Sometimes it’s just that I’m comparing myself to another pastor swipe down the street or a church. I’m comparing my church to a church down the street, and I I, I feel envious of their situation. And so these kinds of things can when I ask myself, what is actually discouraging me? Those things can come to the surface, and I recognize that I’m actually contributing to my own discouragement in some ways. What I’m doing is I’m looking for some sort of validation, some sort of appreciation, some sort of outcome that has not come. And so when I recognize that, let’s say the first situation, it’s actually discouraging. Am I allowing myself space and margin to actually lament that thing before the Lord. A lot of times. What I do in ministry is I just keep running full speed, and then I just like, okay, eventually that will I’ll forget about that, or I’ll feel better if I can outrun, outpace the discouragement that’s not helpful in the long run. And so making margin and space for me to lament before God, this is actually very painful, and I need your comfort, and I need your help. I need you to act for me in certain ways according to your character. But if it’s something about myself and my own heart, I need to, I need to look at what I’m doing that’s contributing to to where I’ve gotten and so Kristen mentioned burnout, you might I’ve been there, and when I and when I look at how I’ve been responding, that has been unhelpful and contributed to my own burnout. It’s because I’ve been running myself ragged trying to please people and to keep them in the church they won’t leave if I do all these things for them, and I do it right, and I do it well. And so I’m running myself ragged trying to avoid criticism, avoid disappointment, and I’ve gotten myself into into my own discouragement, because I can’t say no. And so instead, I’m saying no to the gifts that God has given me, like Sabbath and rest and community and friendship and exercise and those kinds of things. I say no to those things so that I can please, please people. And so when I recognize that I need to confess and I need to repent that I have been I have been doing what is actually unhelpful and is actually adulterous. And so if you are that discouraged and burnt out pastor’s wife, you can use those questions that I gave you, but I would tell you to return to the foundational truth of ministry. It only matters what God requires of you, and what does God require of you? He requires your faith and he requires your obedience, not obedience to what other people expect of you or even what you expect of yourself. Sometimes I’m the worst critic of myself, but it matters that God, what He requires of me is faith and obedience to Him and to go back to that foundational truth always, always. It brings me back. It helps me to see where I’m not doing that, and it helps me to remember there’s freedom in serving the Lord. There’s freedom to be a Christian and just to live for Him. And so one of the things that has been hard for me is to learn the language of saying, No. I don’t know if anybody else struggles with that, but I remember I mean this, and like somebody tell me, how do I say no? How do I say no, and how do I do it? Well, am I even allowed to say no? As a pastor’s wife? The answer is yes, you are allowed to say no. Jesus said no. Jesus didn’t, you know, he didn’t heal every person he came across. He took time to be with the Father, and so he did have to set some parameters. So I’ve had to learn to say no, and when I started to say no, it was so uncomfortable to me, because I knew I was disappointing people, and I did not like that feeling. But the more that you say no, the more that it becomes something that is not difficult. It doesn’t hit you with discomfort. And so I’ve learned to just say, first of all, to take time before I say anything to anybody. Answer anybody. If they ask me in person on church and say, let me, let me take some time. I’ll get back to you this week. Or you email me, and sometimes they don’t even follow up, and then it’s like, okay, that’s the answer. Yeah, but email me this week and let me look at my calendar. It gives me space, because my instinct is say yes, it gives me space to prayerfully consider, is this what the Lord wants me to do? And if he says no, I have to say no and to say a gracious No. Thank you so much for that invitation that you you offered me. I feel so honored that you asked me that unfortunately, my schedule doesn’t allow me to do that right now. But let me introduce you to someone who’s passionate about that ministry, or who I think you would really connect with. So there’s a little language for you. I have a whole chapter on saying no in my book how to thrive as a pastor tribe, because I needed somebody to write it out for me. So I wrote it out for you based on what I learned,

Kristen Wetherell
and it’s so good. I learned so much from that chapter. I’m a yes woman as well, and you have taught me how to say no, very, very wise Christy. Let’s talk about the Sabbath a little bit, because Sundays look different for us than they do for everyone else. But this is a day of worship alongside God’s people. It’s a day set apart from the other six and but sometimes it can become a bit of a rat race, and sometimes it can feel like a disappointment. Can you talk to us a little bit about seeking rest when the Sabbath feels like a work day?

Kristie Anyabwile
Yes, so I’m going to talk about it in a couple different ways. And what the first thing I want to say, the main thing I want to say, is that Sabbath is not an action verb, but a state of being verb, right? So Sabbath is not an action it’s not something we do, is who we are. And I get that from Jesus’s teaching right when he’s interpreting the Sabbath, He and and he’s teaching in this synagogue, and he’s saying, Hey, listen the disciple. And people were upset because the disciples were traveling and doing all this stuff on the Sabbath, and they were like, bro, you breaking the law. And Jesus was like, bruh, I have a 17 year old, so bra is gonna come out a lot. Anybody got teenagers? Are you bra now? You know, Ma, Mama, Ma. Bruh, okay, so that’s gonna come out a lot. But Jesus is interpreting the Sabbath. And he says, When the Pharisees confront him, he says, David broke the law, right? And then he said, also the priests, when they’re making the offerings and everything in the temple, like they’re, you know, doing that on the Sabbath, and then the heat so the priest break the Sabbath. David broke the Sabbath. He’s like, if you have a person in need or an animal that you need to save, more than likely you’re not going to let a person suffer or animal suffer, you’re going to help them. And that would also be, quote, breaking the law. People do good deeds on the Sabbath, and so Jesus says to them what he says, Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, meaning the Sabbath was meant to be a blessing for humanity, not like a harsh taskmaster ruling over us. And then we jump over to the writer of Hebrews. The writer of Hebrews explains that the Sabbath rest comes when someone hears the word and they don’t harden their hearts, right? And there he’s talking about when the Israelites hardened their hearts in rebellion. They had to wander in the wilderness for 40 years, and so they didn’t get to experience the rest of God because of their unbelief. And so at the end of the day, whether it’s on a Sunday or whether it’s on some other day of the week, Jesus is reminding us, and the writer of Hebrews is reminding us that Sabbath Rest is really belief in the promises of God and living within the promises of of God. And so we can rest in Christ, even if we don’t get physical rest, we want physical rest, and we need it. But I want to set this tone by saying, when we enter the rest that comes through the gospel, then we can stop our striving, and we can rely on the strength that the Lord provides and doing all things well in the power of the Holy Spirit. And so I want to set the tone in that way, like think of Sabbath as who we are. We are people who are resting in the Sabbath as we wait the final Sabbath. And I think that that might reorient how we think about the Sunday routine and the things that we have going on that require a different type of Sabbath rest, a type of Sabbath rest where we do set aside that one day, at least in the week, where we can rest from our work, just as Jesus, I mean, just as God rested after he created the cosmos and all that’s in it, he rested. Right? And so I think one of the things that I think about, just as I talked about discipling people into the kinds of relationships that feel safe for you to share difficult things, I think there’s an aspect of discipling people into the rest that you need as a ministry family. So anybody in a r c can tell you after Sunday service, and after my husband has greeted all the people, and after he has had his lunch, pastor’s going to take a nap, that’s it. Don’t bother him between one and three or whatever those hours are. You know, he’s taking a nap he need. He requires a lot of rest more than I do and so, but that’s something that we’ve had to help our church members grow to understand that it’s not selfish for him to pour himself out six and a half days a week and then require a time of just refreshment and rest. And so I think there’s a discipleship that can take place there. And so part of that is setting and protecting the boundaries that you need as a family and bringing your community along with you. And so just, who was just talking about, oh, Glenna was talking about the perceptions that we think people have of us. So I think another perception thing is sometimes we think that people think that we’re supposed to be working all the time and we don’t deserve or need or, you know, require rest. And so I is that I think when we’re thinking about the guilt that we feel sometimes for taking time for ourselves to rest. We need to consider like, why are we feeling that way? Do I feel this way because I’m projecting onto others what I think that they want from me? And again, there’s some work that can be done there within your church to help people to know what you need prioritize yourself over the perception, is basically what I’m saying. So prioritize yourself over the perception of what you think people think of you, and then think about what is rest for you. Now for me, rest might be going to hang out with a friend, going for a walk. It’s doing things. Rest is not necessarily putting my head on a pillow, although I need that more and more in the order I get but it’s restful for me to have people over for lunch, to have good discussions about the sermon, to just chat it up with friends. For my husband, he gonna do that for about five minutes, and then he’s out. So know what is rest for you, and then you know when you and then make room for the things that you need and let people know that that’s what you need. And then finally, I would say that as you practice saying no, as you practice, you know, reflecting, you know, reflecting on what you need, that I think you just rest in the Lord, and do that with faith and do it with joy. You might have to change your family routine. So for us, the BD prepares his sermon so that he’s done before Friday. So his weekend is a regular weekend. He’s not working on the sermon. All he did he used to do that. We’re however many years into ministry, right? So your season might be different, but he’s ordered his week such that he can have a regular weekend like everyone else. Another thing that he has done is because so many people are serving in the church on a Sunday, he sees the Sunday sermon as his service to the church, and he doesn’t regard that as a quote, unquote, work day. And so again, once the sermon is over, and he served the church in that way, you know, he’s gonna take His Sabbath rest. And then I said, Finally before, but finally, I think, if Sunday for whatever reason, if you have Sunday church on a Sunday afternoon, and you just don’t feel like that’s a Sabbath for you, then take some other time in the week and make that a time of Sabbath rest, and prioritize it, protect it. Set the boundary and let your community know. Let your community even know the capacity that you have, the differing capacities of you and your spouse, and then again, disciple your church into the things that you need. Thank

Kristen Wetherell
you. For those of us who have little kids, raise your hand if you have little kids, that’s us. We have three little ones. This is uniquely hard, and it’s always hard in its own way, but Christine Hoover was really helpful to me in this regard. I don’t know if you remember saying this, but you said you and your husband give each other time. So one of you takes the kids for an hour on your day off, and then you switch, and that has been so life giving for us. So just a little tip for y’all with little kids. Thanks, Christine, well, we just have a few more minutes together. I’d love for us to end with this, what specific verses of scripture or two? Truths from Scripture have encouraged and motivated you over the years.

Glenna Marshall
Psalm 119, 68 says to the Lord, You are good and you do good. Teach me your statutes when I view whatever life circumstances are going on. Church, ministry, church stress, things that are going wrong at the church. When I view those things through that grid, the Lord is good and he does good, I feel better able to endure hard circumstances, because so often we equate God’s goodness with good circumstances, but God is good in every circumstance, and he is kind and he is loving, because his character is unchangeable. So anytime we have been through very, very difficult seasons as ministry, as I’m sure you all have, when you feel like I’m about to go put a for sale sign in the yard and get out of this town in this church. I’ve done that many times. Wanted to and but when I stop and view what is happening in our life through the lens of God’s good character, it sort of reorders the way that I am thinking about my life, and it just undergirds endurance. For me, it is God’s steady, certain, sure character, and knowing that He loves His church and somehow he will preserve his church through the conflicts that we are enduring somehow because he loves His church more than we do. And so if he loves His church and he is good. I can love his church, and I can trust him to be good in these circumstances.

Kristie Anyabwile
So one of the scriptures that I guess you could hold a life verse, Colossians. One verses, 2829 I believe it is Paul is talking about his labors in the Gospel, and he says, It is for this that I it is for this that I labor striving with all of his energy, that he powerfully works in me. And so I’m a doer, any doers? I’m a doer. I’m a helper. I’m a yes sir, and and it’s easy for me to want to have a sense of control and a sense of just doing, doing, doing, and I can do a lot of things in my own strength, but guess what? My strength runs out real quick, and I get to zero real quick. But if I’m striving in the energy and the strength that the Lord provides. His strength is never ending. The energy that he provides is ever flowing. He gives me an abundance of what I need when I’m relying on him, rather than when I’m relying on myself. So I would encourage you with that to strive with all of his energy, not your own, which he powerfully works in us to do the things that he’s called us to do.

Christine Hoover
I have two that are kind of my main ministry. Verses one is first, first. Corinthians, 1558, it says, Therefore my beloved brothers be sisters, Be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain. And then Hebrews 610, I go to this often, for God is not unjust, so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. I love that last one, because often I think in ministry, pastors, wives, especially, we feel very unseen, overlooked sometimes, and to know that God sees what we do in his name. And First Corinthians 1558, says that is not in vain. It is not in vain because we’re doing it for him, and he will reward that, but just the fact that he sees and values you and what you bring to his kingdom in your specific context that encourages me every time I read it, every time I think about it,

Kristen Wetherell
well, I would love to pray for us. So will you please, bow your heads. Let’s pray, Precious Lord Jesus, thank You that You love your church. Thank you that you lived and died and rose for your church. What a privilege Lord, what beautiful Grace Lord. Would you please sustain us as we serve you, whether at home, in our neighborhoods, within our church walls, give us spirit imparted joy and remind us that we serve you ultimately, our Lord and our Savior. Lord for those of us who are tired and weary today, Revive us again. For the lonely Lord, draw near with your sweet presence. For the jaded and discouraged, restore the joy of your salvation, empower us to leave this place and support our husbands well and love your people with fresh eyes and willing hearts. It’s for your glory Jesus that we pray all these things. Amen