Editors’ note: 

This episode has been marked as explicit due to sensitive language related to racial slurs. Please listen with discretion.

In this episode of As In Heaven, host Jim Davis revisits some of the conversations with previous guests of the podcast to explore their experiences with law enforcement. This is, of course, a touchy subject, and we address it here not in order to malign police officers, but because we believe this season would be incomplete without these important stories. Not everyone is aware of some of the dignity-robbing and sometimes traumatic encounters that black pastors and professors have had with law enforcement. Empathy and understanding has been the purpose of this show from the start, and that requires that we grasp the fears and wounds of minorities in this cultural moment.  

  • The reason for these stories (0:13)
  • Crawford Loritts (3:18)
  • Isaac Adams (7:10)
  • Darryl Williamson (11:19)
  • Carl Ellis (26:00)
  • Walter R. Strickand (33:39)
  • Jerome Gay (36:28)
  • Irwyn Ince (44:35)

Explore more from TGC on the topic of race.


  1. Had you ever heard any stories like these before? 
  2. What did it feel like to hear so many pastors and professors share their painful, sad, and/or scary stories?
  3. Have you ever had an encounter like any of these? If not, what do you think it would feel like in that moment? 
  4. If these things happened to you, what do you think it would feel like in the future being pulled over?
  5. If these things happened to you, what do you think it would feel like when a traumatic video is posted that is triggered by an encounter uncomfortably familiar with one(s) you might have had?