Experiencing God in Your Affliction

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Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Welcome to our panel discussion on experiencing God in your pain. Suffering is a part of all of our lives. And it’s tempting when we suffer to pull away from God. But all of us today are going to talk to you about experiencing God in your pain and how when we draw towards God, we really can find a deeper relationship with Him. And so we’re going to start off today, though, just introducing ourselves and telling you a little bit about our experience with suffering. And we’ll start with you, Emily.

Emily Jensen
Okay, um, yeah, I’m Emily, and definitely have had a lot of different things throughout my life that I would consider, you know, painful or suffering. But just more recently, actually, before we even came to this conference, we’ve been walking through a recent cancer diagnosis with a very close family member, and just some really challenging medical things going on in our family. But I would say probably the most ongoing pain we walked through in the last few years has been with our fourth son. So I had a regular pregnancy with him and delivered a healthy baby boy and the hospital, everything seemed normal, and we were sent home. We were very busy family at all, babies and toddlers, but eventually started to notice that he was missing milestones and super happy. But you know, what’s not really rolling over, wasn’t sitting up, wasn’t doing a lot of the things my other kids did at that age. And so we started down the road of understanding what was going on, and not really knowing, hey, he’ll probably catch up, we weren’t really sure. But eventually, that led us to different doctors and different doctors, and people weren’t really sure what was wrong, he got to be about 12 to 18 months old. And it was really evident that point, you know, he’s not sitting up, not nearing walking, anything like that, that we really needed to, to understand, because there’s some really scary hard things that can happen. So through that we saw geneticist, and I still remember where I was standing in the kitchen when I got a phone call from our genetic doctor. And he said, I think that you guys need to come into my office tomorrow, and hear the results of the test. And of course, you know, immediately when they want you to come see them that it’s not great news. And so that night, was kind of a real turning point for me. I remember sitting on our back deck and just tears rolling down my cheeks, because I knew that we were never going to go back to time before that moment before that diagnosis. And so we did he is diagnosed with a rare genetic syndrome that I think was only discovered like five or seven years ago. So they don’t know that much about it. But the prognosis was pretty good. And that Hey, me, he may be walking, talking going into preschool, he may catch up pretty well, we don’t know. But now he is, he’ll be six this summer. He’s just a tremendous joy in our lives. But he is totally nonverbal. And so doesn’t even really use a communication device. So I’ve never heard him say, you know, Mama, or I want this. So it can be hard to communicate with him. And he still doesn’t walk independently. So around our house, he crawls or finds his own way to get around and uses a wheelchair for any type of long back and forth and assisted Walker at school. And so he’s it’s just, it’s been a long journey. For us. This is something that my husband and I, when we talk about our future, we say, us and our son, you know, we talk about it like that. I think it’s a long term road for us and one that’s had a lot of joyful moments, but a lot of painful ones.

Jen Oshman
My name is Jen Oshman it’s great to be with you all tonight, or this afternoon, whatever time of day it is. But my experience with pain really stems from my nuclear family. So I was born in a household that did not profess Christ, and my parents divorced when I was eight years old. And then I went to live with my mom for a week and my dad for a week for the next 10 years of life until I went away to college. And both households, there was different pain in each household. There is significant substance abuse and one of the households. So just some of that childhood pain that I continue to process even now as a mom myself, but So really my childhood and the home the family that I come from, then my when my husband and I got married, we felt the Lord calling us overseas to the mission field. So we lived overseas for about 15 years in Japan and the Czech Republic and we moved overseas with our firstborn as a newborn baby. So we raised our children in foreign countries with family nearby. So that was that’s sort of another shaping influence, a season of pain for us. When we were overseas, the Lord called us to international adoption, and we had the joy of bringing home a 12 year old daughter. So we had a seven year old, five year old and three year old daughter. And then the Lord called us to be mom and dad to a 12 year old. So then we entered the pain of parenting and loving a child who grew up with significant trauma and continues to process that trauma. So as an adoptive family, walking that road together. And then just more recently, we have had genetic illness diagnosed in our family with multiple people with a caring familial ALS. And so that has been somewhat of an umbrella of concern and pain. And then lastly, I’ll just share that my father passed away last year or two years ago, but without knowing the Lord. So just losing losing a dear one outside of Christ has definitely been a painful and shaping influence as well. So my sources of pain tend to be nuclear family related. But I’m looking forward to discussing with all of you about God’s faithfulness, and hearing your stories, too.

Kristin Wetherell
My name is Kristen Wetherell. And about 12 years ago, I started dealing with a lot of chronic pain that apparently had no source. I went to about eight or nine specialty doctors and nobody could tell me what was going wrong. They would all say, I don’t know, your blood work looks good, you are young, you’re probably fine. Maybe you’re just stressed about it. But I knew that something wasn’t right. And flash forward a few years, my husband and I had just gotten married. And in God’s kind Providence, he led me to a Lyme literate physician. And that doctor heard my story, I think we spent about four hours with him that first appointment, did a bunch of blood work himself. And he said, we have every reason to believe that you’re struggling with Lyme disease. So I started a treatment plan for that. And I’m feeling a lot better a lot of my symptoms have subsided, but with that history has come, some chronic nerve damage, pain that has stuck with me and makes motherhood really hard. I have two little kids who never slow down. And therefore I never slow down. So I’m always dealing with that. And, and it’s brought on just some weird things too, like a chronic jaw pain, and just things that should be easy, like talking aren’t. So I’ve dealt with a lot of chronic pain through that. And another part of our story is, you know, we’re so so glad that we were able to get pregnant and have a little girl my daughter is three and a half years old. But in between she and my son who’s almost a year we did have a miscarriage. And that’s, you know, apparently pretty common one in five I’ve read. But that doesn’t make it easy. It’s really, really painful. So we walked through that as well. So a lot of our history has to do with a lot of physical pain and suffering.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
I’m definitely looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say about this. So I’m beneath the Reisner and my experience with suffering started pretty young. When I was three months old, I contracted polio, we were in India, the doctors had no idea what I had, because polio, they thought had been eradicated. The vaccine had been developed a decade earlier. So they didn’t know what I had. They gave me the wrong medicine. And within a couple of days, I was a quadriplegic, and they realize that they had made a mistake, they gave them cortisone. So most of my life, my parents left India, we moved to England, and then moved to Canada, and I just started having surgeries. So by the time I was 13, I had 21 operations. And I was a quadriplegic when I first got polio, but then I was able to through all the surgeries and exercising twice a day, every day, I was able to walk, took my first steps when I was seven, lived a pretty normal life, came to Christ and really thought my life was gonna be great. I mean, I honestly thought I am done with my suffering, no more suffering. And that was good. That was 10 years of not a lot of suffering, but then got married to Guy met in grad school and had had several miscarriages and then had a son who had a hypoplastic left heart, which means he had half a heart. So I had surgery at birth, and was doing really well but a substitute doctor when he was almost seven weeks old, took him off his medicine, thinking he was doing so well and he died. And that was a moment for me you know, this panels on experiencing God in your pain and I was not ready for that. I did not think that believers would have to go through that. I thought when I came to Christ, my life was gonna be great. So I really pulled away from God and yet God through lots of things met me, which was pretty incredible and had a different view of what the Christian life was and suffering. And I once again thought, Okay, now I’m done with my suffering. But then, six years after our son died, I was diagnosed with post polio syndrome, which is basically my body is going backwards. And with post polio syndrome, you basically can deteriorate back to the way you were when you first got polio. And I was a quadriplegic, so my muscles are failing, I don’t use my arms very well, I use a wheelchair most of the time. And that has been a struggle for me just realizing that everything I do, the one thing with post-polio is, the more you do, the weaker you get. So I make decisions every day and have for a number of years on, am I going to spend my energy on that. And that’s, that’s been a real struggle for me and a way that I’ve really had to connect with God of, do I help my kids do I do that, because I know there’s going to be a cost. And then six years after that diagnosis, my husband left, and I raised two adolescent daughters as a single parent, and that that was the hardest for me at the time, because I just, it was so personal. I mean, everything else was kind of like that happened to me. But when our son, when our son died, I walked through that with my husband, but he was gone. And my kids were angry. So I get rebellious, angry teenagers. And yet God was faithful to me. And I knew he would be faithful because he had been faithful through all of those really hard things. And I would say, I drew closest to God through that last thing, which was the hardest. And so I would say, I wouldn’t trade any of those things for the way that I know, Jesus now. So grateful for that. So that’s my story in a nutshell. We just have some questions that we’d love to talk about with each other, and love for you guys to be part of that. So our first question that we want to talk about is practically, how has God met you when you felt that you were on the at the end of your rope? And Emily, I just love it if you would start with that?

Emily Jensen
Yeah, it’s a good question. Because we have five children who are still pretty young. You know, I do a little bit of work part time, my husband obviously has a full time job, we’re really busy. And so often when pain or grief strikes, like there’s a meal that needs to get on the table, I need to get ready for school the next day, there’s a thing that I need to get done. And so I’ve often found that it’s not a moment where I can just be like, hey, you know, I need to go cry, or I need a few hours off. It’s just felt like Okay, Lord, what can I hang on to, to get to the next moment to experience your presence in this, and I think one of the things that’s helped me a lot is just really rich hymns. Because I can always like start quoting a scripture, I think that’d be great. Sometimes I am literally that deep in where all I can do is sing. And I remember singing how Firm a Foundation when my son was really young, and we would rock at night. And that got me through so much, because those verses actually walk through a lot of metaphors about the trials of life and how God sanctifies us and that some other specific hymns that have helped me is I asked the Lord, I don’t know who that’s by. But again, it’s another story of somebody who prays for grace and peace. And the way that the Lord brings that to them is through trials and suffering. William Calper, has a hymn Oh, I can’t find it in here. Oh, God moves in mysterious ways. And that’s another one that talks about how sometimes we just see the clouds. But behind that, you know, God is working blessing in our lives through hard things. And so singing hymns is sometimes like all I can do, maybe I can remember only one verse that’s really helped me. And I think another thing. At the beginning of the year, our son had a pretty significant seizure, and had to be hospitalized. And I was processing through it with one of our pastors, and he encouraged me as I was giving this narrative, and I was just telling them all the horrible things that of the things I saw heard. He was so kind to affirm that but also, don’t forget to keep hope attached to the horrible that there’s another narrative going on that God was being gracious and kind in that and for me to recount some ways that maybe I saw that too, that were a little harder. And as I look back, one story in particular that sticks out to me was I remember several years ago, when we went to an appointment and found out for the first time that my son was going to need a wheelchair. I just remember thinking like, that’s so hard. And I came out, walking out the building and just felt so discouraged and just couldn’t even imagine that and I want to back up a little bit and tell you about our vehicle that we have. So we thought we would have more children, we bought this gigantic van looks like a delivery truck. So we get confused with FedEx, it’s okay. But anyways, so we’ve, after my son’s diagnosis was okay, we’re probably done. And I had been complaining to my husband like, why did we get this big, ugly van? You know, like, why don’t we have a cool SUV. But I found out the reason when we came out of that appointment, and opened the double doors of our van, and there is an empty spot right there. That is the perfect size for my son’s wheelchair. And that was just a moment where I saw there was hope there attached to the horrible. God was with me, and he knew what was going to happen before I even did and was providing.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah, wow. Thank you. That’s great, Emily, anybody else have anything to add?

Kristin Wetherell
Yeah, I was thinking about this and how the church is called the body of Christ for a reason the church is the hands and feet of Christ. And one of the sweetest ways that the Lord Himself met me was through his people. And it’s hard when you’re at the end of your rope, because nobody wants to be weak. Nobody wants to ask for help. It’s very difficult to do to lay aside that pride. But what is sweet, not only what a sweet gift can you give to your brothers and sisters in Christ, the gift of service. But what a sweet gift to receive. And there were countless times when people provided food for us cleaned my house because I couldn’t just sweet sweet gifts, watched my kids. So that’s it makes me think of like, receive the gift of mercy and comfort through God’s people. Because they’re His hands and His feet.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah. Yeah, it’s amazing, all the ways that God meets us just through hymns and people when we’re at the end of our road. So suffering, though often for all of us, in some ways, has come unexpectedly. And sometimes we wonder how can we prepare? If we’re specially if we’re not suffering now, or something might come down the road? And so do you have any anybody I’d love to talk about? What tools have you used? And how have you prepared for suffering that has come in your life?

Jen Oshman
Yeah, I think we are all inevitably going to experience suffering, nobody gets a pass on this one, whether it’s physical or emotional, or families or otherwise, it’s coming for us one way or another in ways that we probably can’t foresee. And so I think that much of the Christian walk is really preparing for these trials to come. Because if you aren’t prepared when they happen, really at that point, it’s too late. If you don’t have the structures and the support and the systems around you, When a crisis hits, it’s really hard to rally the support that you need, when you are reeling in your pain. And so my encouragement to every person in here is to be intentional and careful and spending prayerfully spending your time How can I build up the scaffolding around me and my family for when these moments come. And I really do think that the Lord works in three ways. Now, not just only these three ways, but there’s sort of three principles that I’m always just reminding myself of, and encouraging my friends with that the Lord really works through His Word, His people, and His Spirit. And so the best way you can prepare for suffering tomorrow is to be in the word today, and to be singing it to be hearing it though scripture, lullabies are other ways that you can just get scripture in your ears to be memorizing it. Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever done anything more powerful to change me from the inside out, than memorizing the Word of God. And not necessarily because you feel like it’s something for today, but trusting that the Lord is going to use his word tomorrow, or today or in 10 years. But the word if you’re not in the word today, you will not be ready tomorrow. And then the people of God, Kirsten has already spoken to this so well. But the local church is Jesus means of grace to you. And to me, conferences like this are wonderful. They’re like a fabulous shot in the arm. But they are not the local church, and we will wither without our brothers and sisters routinely with us, not just on Sunday morning. But throughout the week, women that we can text and be really real with and say, Hey, this is what I’m feeling. This is what I’m walking through. Can you help me? Can you remind me of the gospel right now because I’m having a hard time believing it. I know, I know it. But I’m not feeling it. If you could pray for me right now and remind me of what is true. We just need the people of God. So find them, do what it takes to find them. And then lastly, the Spirit of God just being cultivating that prayer life, remembering that the Holy Spirit, the risen Jesus lives inside of you. He has not abandon you. Jesus said I will not leave you as orphans. I will come to you and that is real. You are not alone in your pain. Our king lives with us we abide in him and so really calling on him and Asking the spirit to move and to help in the in the midst of pain and he will that’s God Help is a prayer that he answers every time.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah, that’s a great thing to remember the the Word, God’s people and the spirit. And I would say, one other thing that has helped me or maybe two is, one is developing a theology of suffering. And I know that sounds strange and like huge words, but just understanding that God is going to be in your suffering. And for me, when it first hit, I thought, Where is God, God doesn’t care, God is gone. And just telling yourself now whatever is going to come into my life tomorrow, by get off the plane and and I get bad news, God is going to be in this, he’s going to walk with me through it. And just telling yourself that, that suffering is not a punishment from God. And I love this scripture. You know, it says, there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. So if you know the Lord, your suffering will never be there will be no punishment for you. So just kind of understanding that was huge for me. And it took me a while to get there. And another thing that I would say is reading Christian biographies like reading books, like the hiding place, or Johnny Erickson, Tata has great books. And just understanding how people who have suffered, have done it well and and have honestly struggled as well, but you just see it played out in people’s lives. And I find that’s really helpful. Because when I just read truth, it’s great, but I need a story sometimes around it to really relate to it. And so that’s another thing that I would recommend doing now is just preparing, like, If suffering comes, what am I? What am I going to think about that, and watching it through people’s lives. So but I love one of the things you mentioned is the word and that really is critical. And I know, Christian you have done, you’ve written beautifully about the word and I would just love to hear how the word has ministered to you in suffering.

Kristin Wetherell
Well, with suffering comes a lot of feelings, a lot of emotions, sorrow and grieving and lament, bitterness, some doubt, even despair, some of us struggle with depression related to our suffering. And what I have found so helpful is that scripture helps me in at least two ways here. It gives voice to my feelings, it gives language to my feelings, I am not alone. There is a great cloud of witnesses that has gone before me and the Psalms are a great example of this. But not just that scripture actually leads my feelings into the truth. It takes my heart in hand, and counsels me because the Spirit works through the Word. And so I don’t stop with feeling but I bring my feeling to the throne of grace. And it helps me to exercise faith in Christ, to take all that I’m dealing with to Him, and to say, Who are you Jesus, I need to see you for who you are, so that I can trust you more. And I’ve been reflecting on the resurrection account from the Gospel of John lately. And I love this because Mary is one is the first person who sees the risen Christ. And she’s weeping. Of course, she’s weeping, her friend is gone. She thinks that that’s the end, what was all of that for? And he appears to her, and he speaks to her, and everything changes. And that’s what the Word of God is. It’s God speaking through His Spirit. So that’s what’s been so helpful for me is that this is a living and active word. This is not just a book. It’s God Almighty speaking through this book. So that’s how it’s really helped helped me in times of suffering. Oh,

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
yeah. Great. Anybody else I know, for all of us, that word has been huge, but just love to hear from.

Jen Oshman
I mean, I would I would add that we are all being discipled by something. And I think more often than not, we’re all being discipled by Instagram, and our Facebook feed and other things that are online. And we’re just ingesting messages. Or maybe you’re not on social media, but you’re just ingesting other messages that are coming at us all the time. And so we do have to be really intentional about what will shape our thoughts, what will shape the passive thoughts within us. And so I just agree so much with Christian that we have to ask the Lord to use his word to lead our emotions and to change us from the inside out. And he will do that. I think that that scripture memory is just so key and I know that maybe sounds so hard or maybe so foreign, but even just one verse at a time. There’s Something so rich about ruminating over that specific verse or that paragraph over and over, that’s a little bit different than reading a paragraph or a chapter in the morning, which is also huge and key and is a slow shaper over time. But to actually memorize it, I think, then you can call on it, you find it changes your vocabulary, it makes you prepare it, it gives you the theology of suffering that you need. So I just encourage, memorize Scripture as much as you can.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah. Yeah, scripture has been huge for me, especially after my husband left, I remember just feeling at the end of my rope and going in opening the Bible and reading Psalm 119. And someone 19 is all about the word, and the power of the word. And honestly, for years, I thought it was the most boring Psalm in the Bible, it’s 176 verses about the word. And I used to think, how can you just read that many, but that day, I opened the Bible. And someone 1925 says, My soul clings to the dust, revive me, according to your word. And I would say that every day, like it was a simple Psalm, and a simple verse. And I would say that every day and God meets us through the word, I think all of us would say, it’s life changing, picking up the word and having God talk to you. So yeah, I

Kristin Wetherell
just Psalm 16, eight, I have said the Lord always before me, because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken. Just a simple reminder. Simple truth like that.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah. So and I don’t know if either of you have verses that you go to, but I, I just love having a just one even short verse. I don’t know, it looks like you.

Emily Jensen
Yeah, I think of Psalm 139, that even their passages where the psalmist is talking about, if I go up to heaven, you’re there. If I go down to shale, you are there, you know that he cannot hide from the presence of the Lord, and that the Lord will be with him and all of it. And that’s so comforting to me when I need to play out a situation and realize even there, God will be with

Jen Oshman
me. Yes. Yeah, mine is actually quite similar to that it’s Habakkuk in chapter three, at the very end of Habakkuk, where he talks about even if the Lord does not produce fruit, even if there’s no blossom, even if there’s no food, even if we hunger, even then I will rejoice in the God of my salvation. And all those years growing up as I found the Lord, you know, in my teen years, and my father never came to faith. And so for about 20 years, I was just so worried about him dying outside of the faith. And that was what I would go to even if even you know, and you put yourself as Emily just said, you put yourself in those scenarios, and you play them out. But even if even the Lord is there, and he is good, and he’s still the God of my salvation, even if the worst comes to pass,

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
yes. Oh, thank you. Yeah. So I would just encourage everyone to just find a verse and have that be your go to, because for me, I can’t remember a lot of things. But I can remember short verse. And sometimes you’d mentioned Christian just saying, Help me. And that’s, that’s great. I mean, there’s Psalms, which say, Help me, and just having something that you say, when trouble comes. The only thing that we wanted to talk about is just how do we respond when suffering comes? And are there truths that we hold on to. And as I was praying about this, there’s probably three things I try to remember when suffering comes. And they’re pretty simple. One is talk to God. And then listen to God, and focus on what you know, and talk to God for me his limit. And that is just being honest with God, because I think it’s really easy to fall into. If I can’t say anything nice. I won’t say anything at all. And I That’s why I’ve drew away from God for a long time after my son died, because I didn’t know what to say. And yet the Psalms have these beautiful, just outpourings of the psalmist son life is hard. And so I would encourage you if you wonder where God is in your pain is to really open the Psalms up and put yourself in those and just talk to God throughout the day. So that’s one thing is talk to God and then listen to God and listening to God for me is reading the Bible. As we’ve talked about, just spending time opening up opening it up and asking God to speak to you, I often will say from Samuel, you know, speak, Lord, Your servant is listening, and just sit with silence and let God respond. Because God often speaks to me that way. And then the last thing I would say is focus on what you know. And in suffering there’s so many things we don’t know like for Emily, you don’t know what’s the future is for your son and none of us just we don’t know in the middle of life. You don’t know what the future is or with your father and so we go through things we don’t know the future. But there’s so many things we do now. And I think rather than ask the question, why, or what have I done or what’s going to happen, which is my first go to honestly, then my second go to is what do I know, I know God is with me, God will never leave me, he will never fail me or forsake me. I know that my suffering has a purpose, I may not see it in this life. But I know that God is using it for something. And then the last thing is, my suffering is going to end that may end in this life, it may be this miraculous, wonderful change. And that’s wonderful. But it may be in heaven when God will make all things new. So whatever you were dealing with now, one day in heaven, it will be made new. And Randy Alcorn has the same Happily Ever After is a blood bought promise for those of us in Christ. So just remembering Happily Ever After is coming, no matter what we have been through whatever we’re dealing with. So that’s those are the truths that I hold on to that I have to remind myself because suffering can kind of overtake you. And so I think just grounding yourself on these are the things I want to remember. And I’d love to hear what you guys ground yourself with.

Emily Jensen
Well, just just to kind of jump piggyback on that of lamenting and sharing with God of just bringing in others as well. talking to friends, I know I am more of a stoic person, I don’t cry easily, I probably look more polished and put together and so it’s just been an act of humility for me at times to tell friends, family, people at church, hey, I’m struggling with this or this appointment is coming up, will you pray with me? Will you limit with me, when I am struggling? That has been a huge, huge gift, as I process through hard things, and then I think just really practically something that’s helped me recently, and I’m not you know, a doctor or counselor, I’m just kind of speaking out of my own experiences. When I’m walking through pain, it tends to be a time when I need to be even more diligent about some of the basic things that keep me physically healthy, and kind of keep me from crouching on wrong things or, you know, dangerous things. Because I think we’re all you know, we’re weak, and you get down enough or tired enough over a long period of time, and our flesh can get better of us. So I think things like trying to make sure I go to bed early if I can, that I’m getting enough sleep, not feeling guilty, if I have to sleep in a little bit extra so that I can be rested to face what’s ahead for the day. I go in and out of seasons of exercise. But if I’m able to do that, realize that has a real effect on my body, thinking through what I’m eating, when I’m watching what I’m taking in what other things I’m reading, I’ve even found that in certain seasons of pain, I may not be able to read the news as much. Or I may need to filter out certain things from the news because I can’t bear the weight of that along with the needs of the person in front of me that I need to care for. So I think those are just some practical things.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah. I don’t know if either of you have just trades that you hold on to practical things that you do.

Jen Oshman
Well, you quoted Randy Alcorn. And I will say that his book, Heaven really changed my life in terms of understanding that this as he calls it, this is the pre party, that we’re not going to the afterlife, we’re in the pre party before the real party. And just acknowledging that life is brief. This is a breath. This is a mist, as James says, and just fixing my eyes on what’s ahead that inheritance in heaven that’s imperishable and undefiled and waiting for me and waiting for you who are in Christ. And that is the good news that this life is brief. And so I’d encourage you to pick up a copy of heaven and read that it’s a very big book, it might be helpful to read it with other people. But it really did renew my mind. I don’t think we think about that. We were like a YOLO people, right? You only live once. And that’s not actually true. That’s a lie. So purging that live from my mind and remembering the truth of heaven has been huge.

Kristin Wetherell
Oh, yeah. I would just say, Who do you know, in your church body who’s gone through a similar thing? It’s just been helpful for me to connect with someone or multiple people who have gone ahead of me, it doesn’t have to be the exact same situation. In fact, it never will be the exact same situation. But I found comfort and camaraderie in that.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Oh, yeah. That’s a great, great idea. Because I think we all tend to feel alone. And we think nobody gets it. And maybe nobody’s been through exactly what we’ve been through. But there’s people who have suffered and just hearing somebody else’s story and just knowing somebody else gets it. Just what suffering is, is huge. So that’s a great, yeah, something we all should do. Well, we’ve all been changed from buyer suffering. I mean, it has drawn us to God and we just I just love it if we could just all go around and just talk about how God has changed us in our suffering and No, who wants to

Emily Jensen
me? Yeah, I? Honestly, I think it’s this can be hard to see, you know, because it’s kind of like, you know, watching your kids grow all of a sudden you notice one day that their pants are like really short. And when did that happen? Because you’re with them every day. And so you don’t always notice it. And I, I think I’ve even had to talk with some friends and have them encouraged me of this is how I’ve seen the Lord work in your life. Oh, okay. But for me, I think it’s just made me long for heaven more. It’s made me realize like our weakness or need for Christ. These all sound like pat answers, but they’re not when you’re suffering. And you realize that, you know, some of the things that we spend a lot of time on spend a lot of time thinking about investing money in relationships is just not going to last for eternity. But I have hope in the resurrection. And I think it just makes me look to him.

Jen Oshman
Yeah, that’s really good. I agree. I think one way that suffering has changed me is that it has actually ultimately been freeing nuoc through the suffering and you realize it’s actually going to be okay. It’s true. He, he didn’t leave me. He didn’t forsake me. He was there. And so I think developing that track record with the Lord, just the long haul of knowing him and walking with him, and having him minister to your wounds and experiencing just the the deep peace that comes at some point in suffering that he brings. It’s freeing, like suffering is not the enemy. We will suffer in this life. And dodging suffering is probably going to be a fruitless endeavor. We don’t think that we tend to think we’re in control, we like to be very safe and all the things but we will suffer. But that’s okay. God will be there, He will not leave you, He will not forsake you. There’s freedom. Yeah.

Kristin Wetherell
Two things come to mind. For me, one is a greater treasuring of my suffering Savior. And in that greater appreciation for what Jesus did for me on the cross. That was the darkest day in human history, he went through all of that suffering, the suffering of bearing the father’s wrath, so that his people would not need to, for me, and for all of us. And he did so so that I could trust him in my own suffering, so that I could know that it’s not the end. But it just sheds light for me on the beauty of that, and the beauty of what Christ has done. And that there’s so much hope, because he walked out of the grave, that wasn’t the end. And in that, knowing that Jesus draws near to me and my pain, we often wonder if God is far away. But in fact, he’s right there. Just like you showed Thomas, the nails, or the nail scars in his hands. He’s right there. He’s saying, I did that for you. And so I’m here for you and your pain, I understand, and I want to be near you, that’s the Savior that we have. And in that, I think the second thing for me is just a humbling reality and just realizing, I’m a servant of the Lord, He made me he has a purpose for me, he decides, I don’t get to decide. But that’s actually really freeing, because I don’t really want to control my life, I would be a terrible God of my own life. And so just kind of coming to that place of saying, Lord, I’m a servant. You choose. And it might be hard, but I know that you’re my loving father. And even though sometimes things are painful, and hard, it’s not the end, and you’re working out good things for your people. And the proof of that is your son. Yeah, wow,

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
what a great, great explanation of the gospel, you know, and just how are, you know, we can relate God relates to us through His suffering, and our suffering, is so pale in comparison to what he has gone through. And for me, I feel like God has drawn near to me and my suffering in ways that I know I wouldn’t know God the same way. And so I have seen suffering as a real gift. At first it was a gift. I you know, Johnny says it’s a gift wrapped in black, which it is, I mean, it’s not a gift that anybody would ask for, or embrace. And yet, I feel like it’s been a gift for me because until suffering was, you know, with each suffering, I hold on to the world less I would say, and I hold on more to God and I had kind of this kind of dream analogy a few months ago and it was the god is the gift and this life we have is wrapping paper. And we are all busy looking at each other’s wrapping paper, like, I love your wrapping paper. And we have great wrapping paper. But, and that’s what we focus on is who has the best photos and who has all these wonderful things. And in suffering, the wrapping paper gets torn. And we don’t want it to tear, we love the paper. But when it tears, we get a glimpse of the gift, because wrapping paper is wrapping a gift. And the gift is God. And I feel like for each one of us, we have drawn near to God and actually gotten a glimpse of the gift. And we get the wrapping paper of perfect families and perfect lives and all those things that we work for. Those aren’t the gift, the gift is so much deeper, and the gift will never go away, like Randy alicorns book and haven’t made the gift is what we get forever, and the wrapping paper will be gone. And so that has really helped me just embrace what God gives us in suffering. And I think if you don’t suffer much, you don’t really get to see the gift because your wrapping paper is intact. And you’re really comparing your wrapping paper to everybody else’s there. I do. And so I think that’s a real gift that we can draw near to God in our suffering. Understanding that. So we have time, I think for just one more question maybe. Okay, so we have, how do we keep? Or how do you guys we can all keep from getting overwhelmed at the thought of future suffering? Because some of us, you know, I’m just thinking about you. I mean, there’s suffering that you know, you’ve been through, but there’s more suffering coming.

Emily Jensen
Yeah, I definitely think that’s easy. And I think that’s one of the scariest things for me in pain or suffering is like, what if this doesn’t end? Right? If you know, there’s an end, you can kind of Oh, hang on, but I can get overwhelmed thinking about how would I change a 26 year olds diaper, if that’s a thing that becomes a reality for us, or, you know, what’s gonna happen when I need to get this Crona adult in and out of a car and I can’t lift them anymore, and I can really go down that path. And I think there is a time for wisdom for preparing for those things for asking those questions. But when I get to where I’m like drowning in that, and it’s paralyzing me to just realize, what is the Lord given me to do right now? Has he given me grace for this? Has he provided grace for me to do this right now and he has, every time, whatever is right in front of me is actually something he’s given me grace to do. And to focus on that.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah.

Jen Oshman
I think it’s something actually Kristin kind of touched on this already. But when, when I remember the cross, when I look back to the cross and the suffering that Jesus endured, and the reality that the Lord was glorified through that, if if that suffering can be redeemed, to glorify God in the greatest way, than any suffering I walk through can also be redeemed to glorify God in the greatest way. There’s no suffering that we are enduring for no reason, God will be glorified. It is for our good and it is for His glory. And so I think it just helps me to remember the cross and to know that he is for me, if he was willing to endure the pain of the crucifixion, he is on my behalf than I know he is for me, he’s not against me. And I also know he’s victorious because he rose again. So if that can be redeemed for His glory, than anything that I face will also be redeemed for His glory, and he will be there.

Kristin Wetherell
And once again, nothing is new under the sun in the Psalms give us the whole of Scripture gives us language for our feelings. But I love Psalm 56 Three, where David says, when I am afraid, I put my trust in you. So not if I am afraid, when I am afraid, because we all experienced those fears. And so I put my trust in you once again, what does that look like? How do we learn how to trust God? Well, how do you learn how to trust anyone, you have to know who they are? So we open the word we ask God to increase our faith in who he is. And I think another way is to remember, Scripture talks so much about remembering what God has done. And that’s a powerful thing to look back and say, when was the last time I felt this way I felt overwhelmed by fear of may may not even be of suffering, it could be of anything. And how did God show up and prove himself to be faithful? It’s often not in the ways that we would expect but all the more reason to worship him because he’s does the unexpected so much of the time. So remembrance I think is really helpful too.

Vaneetha Rendall Risner
Yeah, I love that because and that’s a good reason to journal to to remember because sometimes when we’re in a struggle, we we make it through God is with us, and then we forget and so I think it’s a great thing just to write even when you’re struggling because later you can go back and Look at it. And I think for me the I always want to think about today, because God, you know, you kind of mentioned that Emily as well just God is you have what you need today, you know, and you just look at the Lord’s Prayer, Give us this day, our daily bread, and don’t worry about the trouble of tomorrow. And so I think that is one thing, you know, to keep us from getting overwhelmed is one day at a time. And that’s how God needs us. So what was wonderful getting to be with all of you today? And yeah, we just, I guess I’ll close in prayer. Let’s pray. Lord, Jesus, thank you so much for this time. Lord, I just pray for everyone in here. And everyone listening to this live stream, Lord. We know suffering is hard. And it’s coming for all of us in different ways. And Lord, I just pray that you would draw near to us that you would remind us of your word, that you would remind us that your son gave everything for us and that the darkest day turned out to be the best day. And so Lord, our suffering when it’s dark, you will use it and we can trust you with that. So Lord, I just pray for every woman here every woman listening, Lord, that we would draw near to you, because you draw near to us first. In Jesus name, Amen.