Let’s Talk: Your Questions, Answered!

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Jackie Hill Perry
Welcome to the final episode of Let’s Talk season three. I am Jackie Hill, Perry, Jasmine and Melissa and I have enjoyed talking about applying biblical wisdom to everyday life and we hope you’ve enjoyed listening in, I believe that you did, or will I don’t know, the great thing about a podcast is that the episodes don’t go away, they don’t disappear. They will never leave you nor forsake you. So if there are any that you might have missed, you can go back and find them tgc.org/podcasts.

Jasmine Holmes
Today we’re going to answer some questions that have been sent by listeners and y’all are nosey. They sent in a lot. You want to know a lot of information.

Melissa Kruger
They think we know everything.

Jackie Hill Perry
They asked everything except the brand of deodorant we use.

Melissa Kruger
It was a long list.

Jasmine Holmes
Melissa, what’s our first question for the day?

Melissa Kruger
Okay, this is an interesting one. What’s your number one tip for improving communication in marriage?

Jasmine Holmes
Nudity.

Melissa Kruger
That’s our next question.

Jackie Hill Perry
I don’t know. I think first you have to get over the hump of what’s keeping you from communicating, whether that’s fear, whether that shame, whether it’s pride, you know, all the things, but you just kind of have to get over yourself and be willing to talk about the hard things and the good things. Yeah, you know, you just got to talk actually, yeah, I remember there was a season in our marriage where it was just a rough time. And we were probably married for six months. And so you know, that’s when everything hits the fan, usually.

Jackie Hill Perry
And we didn’t have enough money for cable. And so our cable was cut off. I might have told this story before, but follow me. And in that time, because we didn’t have TV, we were forced to talk. But it was crazy, because it actually helped our marriage, not because we were talking about the hard things all the time. But we just became friends again, you know, and so just turning off TVs and things and just talking.

Melissa Kruger
That’s good. That’s good. I think it needs there’s a difference between proactive talk and proactive speech and reactive. Explain. And I think in marriage, you can get into reactive, like, I’m reacting to the fact that I’ve been secretly mad at you for the past six months, because you keep, you know, leaving your socks wherever you go. And so I, I am now going to pour out all of that from this past six months on you. Because I didn’t proactively tell you earlier on, hey, it’s really bothering me that you’re leaving your socks there. And so I think that’s the type of communication, the reactive time that’s only it’s not healthy. Yeah. And I can fall into that very easily. So I try to be more proactive rather than stuffing and stuffing and stuffing. And then react.

Jackie Hill Perry
Supressing is totally a thing. Yeah.

Jasmine Holmes
I think also knowing your spouse, getting to know your spouse, finding the understandable part of your spouse. I know not everybody is into the Enneagram. But learning when my husband and I first started reading my Enneagram. And he was like I have really identify with being an Enneagram eight. Now, whatever you think about that, knowing the fact that he identifies with that description when he reads it, when I go and read it, it’s really helpful for me to be like, Okay, so that’s how you’re processing. That’s how you’re thinking. When you say x, when you say y, this is what you mean. And so an example of that the other day, I was out, Philip is in Enneagram eight, and he has ADHD, okay, so he’s in his office, upstairs, above our garage, and I go out there and I was kind of feeling sometimes I just feel like lonely during the day. So I go out there and find an excuse to talk to, I’m just like, hey, sweet. What do you want from the grocery store? I like eggs too. So I was kind of like, lingering.

Jasmine Holmes
And he goes, um, are you going to be out here long because I have to get back to work. And I just looked at him. And like, my immediate reaction was like, that’s, excuse me. But then as I was, I stopped and thought about it. And I was like he is being really task oriented right now. And he is afraid that if we get off into a conversation, he’s going to forget what he was thinking about what he was doing what he was. And so I kind of was like going through all that in my mind. And it was so funny because again, pregnant. So like hormonal, I started I didn’t realize that I was like tearing up because he had hurt my feelings. So over on his side, he was like, oh, and when I said that to her, she felt like I didn’t want to be with her. And she was like both of us were like, trying to think for the other person. It was just a really good communication moment for us because I was able to be like that was kind of hurtful the way that you said that. But I understand why you said it that way. And he was like Thank you for understanding what I needed. But also I should be way different when I’m communicating it’s you so understanding each other and being for each other.

Jackie Hill Perry
The more I started to understand how Preston thought, and how he literally does not think like me, it made me much more gracious and gracious even towards myself. Because it’s like, oh, I, I don’t I don’t communicate well all the time. And I’m assuming that you should understand me. But no, I just need to be clear,

Melissa Kruger
And personality tests are huge. I remember the first time this was a different type of test. But I read Mike’s grouping of his, like, hold on, there’s a whole group of people like you? I thought, you were the only one. And you were just wrong about some things. And then just to realize, Oh, it’s just a personality type. And it’s so different than mine. And that gave me understanding.

Jackie Hill Perry
Speaking about marriage and communication, have a question that, you know, the naked lover over here will love. How do you talk about sex in marriage?

Jasmine Holmes
It’s the same toolset, like understanding finding the understandable part of your spouse in finding the understandable part of what they desire, how their desire works, how they’re so I grew up hearing all the time, that men were just like, less filled monsters who like if you showed your clavicle, they were just going to be like, “Oh, my gosh, I must have you”. So when I got married, and my husband was like, a regular person around me, I was like, I not, wow, the most desirable person that you’ve ever seen. I’m confused. Because my whole life, they told me that if I unveil this clavicle on you, you’re gonna be putting in my hand, and now the clavicle is out.

Jasmine Holmes
And like, you ain’t buddy. So what is this? So learning that he wasn’t just some some man, right, but like learning what he needed and what he wanted, and what he desired. And for him, vice versa, was really helpful. Because I think so much Christian sex advice just assumes that women are one way. And men or another way, yeah, and a lot of times in our relationship in our marriage, it’s flipped. And that made me feel like something was wrong with me for a really long time until I realized that. No, actually, you’re just two individuals. And you were made for Philip and Philip was made for you. And this book is my understanding that

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, and I think it’s also probably important to understand your sex life as a form of communication. And that maybe if something goes wrong there, something is wrong in your regular communication to me, or maybe a better way to say it is it’s a temperature gauge of how well your communication is going. It says something. And so it’s good to keep watch on what’s happening there. Because it’s communicating something about your marriage. And it’s just good to be thinking thinking about it. Like what is is it really cold and distant? Well, then probably is because something else is going on, you know, so I think it’s a good gauge to keep watch on.

Jackie Hill Perry
Yeah, sex has been something that me and person have had to communicate about often. Because I mean, sex is, it was introduced to me in a really traumatic way, because of sexual abuse. And I think even the pornography thing, you know, watching pornography, from the age of seven to 19, really did a doozy on the way I understand sex and sexuality in the body. And so it’s something that we always have to process through, because I have these filters, by which I see sex that affects us, you know, and so I often have to explain, it isn’t me rejecting you, you know, it’s, it’s rejecting how I feel, yeah, during a particular act. And so I think it’s really been super helpful for him. And for me in our marriage as a whole, that we’ve had to really just work through so many sensitive and intimate things that have grown us intimately. It’s grown our intimacy, emotionally, which then affects us sexually.

Melissa Kruger
That’s good. Actually, that leads into another one of our questions I kind of feel like is, why don’t we talk about women in porn use more than church? Because it’s affecting not just men in the church. It’s affecting women in the church, but we typically hear it kind of like what you said, Jasmine as a male problem. And how do you think that is even affecting the shame attached to it and all of that for women?

Jasmine Holmes
Yeah, I think it’s just that whole separation of like blue sexuality versus pink sexuality, like women are emotional. And they just want to be held and they just want to, they’re like pressure. They’re, they’re like crock pots. And men are like microwaves. And if you if you want to have sex with your wife, you have to come home from work and you have to be, you know, doing stuff for her so that she is ready and willing, and mindedly myself was like, whatever. Hi, let’s go! Let’s do this! So I felt crazy. I think that a lot of women who struggle with lust or pornography are often made to feel like they’re an anomaly because all of the conversation about sex. And temptation is really centered around men being the ones who struggle with temptation and women being the ones who have to like be the stopgap for the temptation. And yeah, covered the dangerous clavicle.

Jackie Hill Perry
And I think we have to acknowledge that there are different mediums by which people engage in pornographic material. And so whereas men are highly inclined to deal with visual porn, women are they statistically, are more inclined to romance novels that have pornographic material in it. And so, I think that might be why because we don’t look at reading a really sexually explicit book as being pornographic. Because it’s not people on a screen having sex, or even where it is people on a screen having sex like Outlander, or Bridgerton. Or, but as long as there’s a plot, then it’s fine.

Jasmine Holmes
I remember like when Bridgerton came out, and I was watching it, I was like, “Guys, what are we doing right now?” I didn’t finish Outlanders same reason. And you know, those choices that everybody has to make based on their level of maturity and based on their level, because some people just know how to pick up the button and fast forward, some people are not affected by the same thing. So that’s not like a judgment. But I do think that sometimes we get away with watching certain things and inviting certain media because there’s more to it than just the sexual aspect. And so like, oh, yeah, I like Bridgeton because you know, the costumes are so good.

Melissa Kruger
Yes. Costumes keep coming off. Yeah, it’s exactly. Just because it’s a period drama. Exactly. Feel like it’s a little more…

Jasmine Holmes
Yeah, exactly. And it’s like takes a while to get to that. Yeah. It takes like you’re in like the fourth or fifth episode before you’re like, “Oh, wow. The bodice is ripped.” Okay.

Melissa Kruger
Yes, yes. And that can actually be something that’s a little more shocking. Like, when you’re, you know, if someone’s going after strict porn, they kind of do know what they’re going after, in some sense. So I do think, you know, our world is trying to give it to us.

Jackie Hill Perry
Is that much more deceptive? Yes.

Melissa Kruger
It’s more deceptive. That’s exactly right. And I don’t even think I’ve understood the difference it’s made to have video, like online video access, like so when I was growing up, the only option for kids seeing porn was an old Playboy magazine. So it was so different, you know, you couldn’t, you had to actually go buy it. I mean, so just my access to it was so much more limited than what kids have today where they can stumble across something. And they’re just curious, you know, and so they see something. And they’re like, what’s that? Yeah, you know, and so I do think it’s a really tough thing. But I think with women in particular, I’ve heard that when it’s addressed, particularly from the pulpit, only to men, it actually makes them feel more shamed, you know, that it’s not being discussed as a male and female problem, that this is something that women are drawn to, as well.

Melissa Kruger
And so I think that is important that it should always be men and women are fighting this. I will say this, though, I do think it has definitely affected how women are sometimes viewed in the church. Because if our leaders are watching this, it’s gonna affect how you view women in your life. And so I think, and it’s obviously I don’t know how it’s going to change how women view men in some ways, but I think it makes us more dangerous through no fault of our own, just because it’s out there. And so it really is such a difficult struggle for both men and women. You know, in our world today, and I think it’s changed a lot of things. I think it also changes our marriages. That’s what I’ve heard from a lot of younger women who who struggled and when I was in women’s ministry, one of my friends who shared with me some things, it affects marriage, because she didn’t like she lived up to that standard. Correct. And that’s a whole you’re now competing in a bedroom. With all these scenes and that’s that affects your marriage,

Jackie Hill Perry
Or it affects women who are attracted to kind of the perverted dominant men that exist in things like 50 Shades of Grey, yeah, who are who are you know, not passive. Yeah, who are in control who are doing those things. And so you kind of then are attracted to men who dominate you in ways that are not godly, you know, where you you kind of are attracted to those types that repeat myself. Yeah. And so I think it definitely does not renew our minds. And the way that God delights, it really does renew our minds in a really dark way. But we thank God for the spirit. Yeah, he’s able to recreate.

Melissa Kruger
And I think we can say to anyone struggling, find an older woman in church and actually talk to him about it. Yeah. It doesn’t have to have shame. If we have struggles in this area, go find someone who can talk to you and pray for you. Yeah, I think we’d all say, I think people are more understanding hopefully.

Jasmine Holmes
I mean, it’s hard. It’s hard to speak up yet. Right. But this doesn’t change unless we start doing exactly.

Jackie Hill Perry
Yeah, that’s right. Speaking of homes…

Jasmine Holmes
We just went like so deep. And now we’re gonna come come back up to the show. DIY. So ladies, DIY, yes. Or no?

Jackie Hill Perry
Sometimes.

Jasmine Holmes
I can’t even believe you said something.

Jackie Hill Perry
No, because that that was the season I was in. Okay. And so I decided to stay in my steps and paint my wall and, you know, sand and paint my baby’s crib because we were in an entire pandemic.

Jasmine Holmes
That’s enough activity for forevery. Like if I had done all three of those things, it wouldn’t matter if I never did another DIY thing in my life.

Jackie Hill Perry
I will say that. Like, I think working and renovating and beautifying My home is just an extension of my like, creative. side. And so yes, insofar as it helps me to, like express myself creatively, and make something beautiful. Sure. But like the cats that will like install trim. And you know, like, tearing down walls and installing windows by themselves. I’m not that I’m gonna pay somebody. Yeah, I’m gonna find you on Yelp. I’m gonna get you this down payment for you to go to work. I’ll pay. I’m not tearing down nothing.

Jasmine Holmes
I’m sorry. I’m not even gonna paint. Yeah, my mother in law is at home right now. And she was like, hey, while you’re out of town, I might go come over your house and paint the boy’s room for you. It’s kind of fun. And is that okay?

Jackie Hill Perry
Yes, I love the smell of paint.

Jasmine Holmes
But she got the no smell vanilla paint. She’s like I’m just worried about you.

Melissa Kruger
I like the clean smell. It feels like the house is fresh.

Jasmine Holmes
I kind of like when things smell toxic.

Jasmine Holmes
“Today in true confessions of Let’s Talk hosts…”

Jackie Hill Perry
Like the nail salons and stuff they put on you over there acetone and all the things. No?

Jasmine Holmes
No

Jackie Hill Perry
Shame. Let’s go back to Episode Two.

Jasmine Holmes
We are all creating something. Yes. That’s all DIY is…creating.

Melissa Kruger
I do gardening. I create a garden.

Jackie Hill Perry
There you go.

Jackie Hill Perry
I love creating a garden.

Jackie Hill Perry
Jasmine, you’re you’re creating a kid. You didn’t do it yourself.

Jasmine Holmes
I’m doing it myself right now.

Melissa Kruger
Here’s another one. Especially because we have TGCW22 that we’ll all be at coming up this summer. What women’s events have impacted you if any have impacted?

Jasmine Holmes
Glory. Jackie’s event. Did you go? No. I haven’t been to a single event.

Melissa Kruger
Okay, but it’s impacting you. Yeah. Okay. Tell me about that.

Jasmine Holmes
Well, because Jackie is so fly. Like, I don’t know what I don’t even know what you’re talking about. But you just be on stage her little her wing be flipped. And the outfit… The yellow suit.

Jackie Hill Perry
You guys are really worldly.

Jackie Hill Perry
Okay. I’ll be the holy one in the group. Yeah, go ahead. I did go to one women’s event, maybe five years ago. And I think what made it really unique is that they were they were walking through themes related to, I think atonement or something. And one thing I really appreciated is that after every session, they the worship songs were centered on the text or the theme that was immediate like that was touched on during the sermon. And so it wasn’t vague. It wasn’t broad. It wasn’t like You know, she talked about atonement, and then we start singing about, you know, I don’t know sanctification, right? And it just was like, Oh, this really makes the worship connect to the session. And I don’t know, that seems so small. But I guess to me, I was just like, I really like how thoughtful and intentional they were, and making sure that what they taught and what they saw were the

Jasmine Holmes
Does she have a yellow suit, though?

Jackie Hill Perry
No, because it was about Jesus.

Melissa Kruger
I now work for TGC. I went to the first women’s conference at TGC. I think it was in 2012. And it was the first time I’d been to a women’s conference that we weren’t talking about womanhood. And for me, that was just so refreshing because I was there with a girlfriend. And I remember looking at her and I was like, we’re just talking about the Bible. It’s so nice, because I’m fine talking about womanhood but when that was just the topic year after year after year at every women’s event. I just kept thinking, you know, I could really, I could really hear a talk on kindness, and joy and patience. I remember at that conference, hearing, John Piper, talking about Isaiah 6. And it was all on the glory of the Lord.

Melissa Kruger
And, you know, he made this wonderful contradiction King us i is dead. And the Lord is seated on his throne. But then he talks about the robe fillings, it was just this great moment, I was like This is, yeah, I’m getting this image of God’s greatness. And I actually need that to be whomever I’m caught to be. Anyway, it was just this, you know, it’s just one of those changing moments of I love having a conference for women. That’s about God. Yeah. And I just love getting to be there and getting to study.

Jasmine Holmes
I return to like two TGC sessions over and over again. One of them is Mike’s. He talked about women in the church. And I ended up reading his book, one in the church afterwards, and I’ll never forget, because it’s so funny because he’s not stoic, but like, that’s how he comes across. So I was like, I loved your book about women in the church. And he was like, Oh, great. You’re gonna three people they read that. He’s like, you understood it. You liked it like, Wow, that’s so Mary Wilson at the time. Now, Mary Hannah has a session.

Jasmine Holmes
That’s basically about is God chauvinistic? Is God Mysogynicist? When I was going through the Old Testament again, I returned to that passage. I did it for myself. I did it when I was teaching high school. We were doing ancient history. Yeah, I did it. Like I just returned to that one over and over and over again. I’m not much of a conference person. Yeah. When I go to a conference, I’m usually a participant. Yes. But that particular session? Yeah, literally life changing. Yeah.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. No, that was a great. That was a great, maybe we could put it in the show notes for this episode. Because that was a right one.

Jasmine Holmes
You may not be into women’s events. But are you into sports at all?

Jasmine Holmes
No.

Jackie Hill Perry
What about you?

Melissa Kruger
Absolutely. I love sports. I was such a tomboy growing up. I can remember fourth and fifth grade. All the other girls are over on the playground on the swings, and I was on the soccer field. I was the only girl on the soccer field. And I was like, why would I be anywhere else? I love sports. I played soccer in high school played tennis in high school. I love I love playing Ultimate Frisbee. Yeah.

Jackie Hill Perry
I wanted to be in sports, because I just wanted to do something good that other people couldn’t do. But when I was in seventh grade, I signed up to run track. And then the teacher he was a math teacher. Look at that. He was the math teacher and the track coach. And he said that, like we’re gonna start working on running a five minute mile. And I say yeah, no, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go home. And so it just it never play out for me. But I do watch it. I watch basketball and stuff because Preston does. And so I do get into like playoffs. I’m not gonna keep up with it. Yeah, but I know what’s happening.

Jasmine Holmes
We watched that Michael Jordan movie together, me and Phillip and it was so funny because he was so patient with me. Because I was just like, trying to put everything into context, right?

Melissa Kruger
Like, who’s Michael Jordan?

Jasmine Holmes
I was like, I was like, oh, yeah, Michael Jordan. He’s like, Yeah, you know who plays for Yea, the bulls. He’s like, what else do you know is like, Space Jam. Oh, space jam.

Jackie Hill Perry
Sports documentaries are so inspiring.

Jasmine Holmes
He paused it so many times. It was like Explain it. Like he was like That play was amazing. And he was like, Do you want to understand why it was amazing? He pauses and he’s like, Okay, so here’s what happened. I was like, He’s so sweet to me. I don’t understand.

Melissa Kruger
Playing the sport, or at least trying does help you enjoy it more. I remember, I think it was on our honeymoon or honeymoon had like a little par three golf course. And so I’d never played golf before. And so Mike taught me. And it was after that, that grew to actually love watching golf I never had before. And then I was like, it’s actually hard to hit that little ball. Oh, yeah. It makes you appreciate what Tiger Woods is doing when he goes out and does what he does, like, oh, that’s hard, you know? Anyway, so playing something can make you appreciate you actually, no, that’s not easy to get that basketball up like that. And you know,

Jasmine Holmes
Childbirth is my elite extreme sport.

Melissa Kruger
You’re the athlete. You’re winning.

Jasmine Holmes
For those moments in my life, I’m an athlete.

Melissa Kruger
Okay, here’s another this is an interesting question. What’s the remedy for compassion fatigue? So first, what is compassion? Fatigue? And then what’s the remedy for it?

Jasmine Holmes
I struggle with compassion. So y’all will most likely have to teach me

Jasmine Holmes
Is compassion fatigue like where you’re just giving so much of yourself? So much empathy, and so much like, feeling that you just get exhausted, you’re like, tired out from? Is that what it is?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I think it’s, and this is this was my interpretation, the question. You know, now we can see into so many more homes and so many more windows with social media, like so I actually know, in real time that today, you know, what’s happening around the world, like, we might know how COVID is raging in a foreign country now in a way that we wouldn’t have known even even 2030 years ago. And so there’s so much going on. And then you’ve got a friend’s friend, friend who has cancer, right? And you’ve then got somebody else’s child who was in this accident, you know, you’re just going to your scope, please pray for this. Please pray for this. And these are people that you sort of know, right, but they’re not, you know, they’re not really close in your life. And so how do we deal with all that’s coming at us?

Jasmine Holmes
I think we have to make sure that we’re actually being faithful and compassionate with the people that are in our lives so that it’s not performative. Yeah, because it can so easily become performative on social media, where it’s just like, I’m gonna retweet this or I’m gonna repost this, or I’m gonna, so people know that, that that I know, because if they know that I know, then, yeah, that’s somehow we’ll do you know, so I think, being, being careful that the compassion is being meted out, in your day to day life.

Melissa Kruger
You know, I think when it comes to the compassion, fatigue, one remedy, in some sense, is just to accept our limitation, you know, we can only take in so much we can only do so much, because, I mean, sometimes I feel like I’m five days behind, on whatever happened, and then you feel like, Oh, I totally miss it, you know, whatever. But I think to say, am I in the moment, doing the good I can, in the world I’m in, you know, when I see it, whether it’s like at the grocery store, and you see a lady who’s in a wheelchair, or having a hard time getting up, and you just stop to help her.

Melissa Kruger
You know, I think that’s sometimes what we miss, kind of like what you were saying, Jasmine, and to in my real world, am I doing what I can to love my neighbor, and be aware of what’s going on, you know, around me, right, but also rest in the fact that a better country is coming. And know that we can do good things here. But we’re having to wait for a better a better final land. But that’s, you know, its attention. Its attention.

Jasmine Holmes
We live in that tension of they already and not yet. Like we can make changes and we can bless people and we can spread awareness so we can pray. But also, there’s only so much we can do. That’s right. We’re finite. Yeah. Because this world is broken until Jesus comes back.

Melissa Kruger
Yep. Yep, that’s right. And I think we can be like the prodigal father, who was looking out for his prodigal son. Yeah, he was. It wasn’t like, he was in the house. He was looking when he was coming thing so we can be on the lookout for who needs your help today without thinking I need to go do that on social media. I don’t know that feels like kind of a way we I think like to pat ourselves on the back and say I shared something or whatever. Yeah, versus even if it’s just personally quietly praying. Okay, I pray about the situation in this country right now. And just doing it really quickly.

Jasmine Holmes
Even in your own life, sometimes compassion fatigue can come from being compassionate to like people in helping professions can get Yeah, compassionate fatigue. Yeah. But that again, you know, going back to our boundaries episode, it’s really important to prioritize Yeah, What what is God asking us to prioritize? And what do we have to just say, You know what? I can’t today? That’s right. I’m just going to pray for that and trust God to take care of that for today. And then tomorrow, maybe I’ll have renewed energy to face. Yeah, whatever.

Melissa Kruger
That’s right. Ditto. So this is a good question for both of you. What are some practical ways to get time away from the kids? Come do a podcast? (laughs)

Jackie Hill Perry
Take long, long, long showers. If your water bill can handle it, no, seriously, my my getaway more times than not is that to really just take a breather. This isn’t a circumstance for all mothers, because there are some mothers that are single mothers, where this kind of question is more complicated to answer. But for me, I’ve often had to tell Preston, Hey, I just need an hour. Like, can you just just kind of be here where I can just, and I one time I went upstairs and I laid in my closet, which is worship music because I was like, I was so full of thoughts and ideas and stresses and duties and all the things and I was like, I’m, I’m gonna yell at somebody. If I don’t decompress in this moment. So just telling someone Yeah, I need a break. Yeah, I think that’s okay to do.

Jasmine Holmes
Yeah, every night when Philip comes in from work, he knows it’s his turn. Yep. So, and I was definitely raised on the principle of like, Daddy’s been at work all day. So when he comes in, you have to like, set the stage for him to rest. And, you know, not in my household because my dad never had a typical nine to five. But like, that’s what all of the ladies that our church, you know, that’s what Yes, that was a thing. And it’s totally different. Like Philip comes in from work. And he told me one time he’s like, like, you’ve been working all day, too. So we’re just gonna work together till bedtime. Yep. I’m so cute. He will give me like, I’ll make dinner. He’ll take over with the boys while making dinner. And then I’ll feed them and then after dinner is dad time, we’re gonna hang out with Dad watch a show. Do whatever. But Mom is usually in the bathtub. Yeah, usually.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. I do have to, for years always locked the bathroom door. You know, and just kind of be in there for a while. And it was just because even if the doors I told you all the time, yes. They’ll just like they just think they can talk to you at any time. Even when you’re going to the bathroom.

Jasmine Holmes
Wynn will come in while I’m literally on the toilet. Like, how’s it going?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. Hey, he’s like trying to get away from everyone right now. I will say one thing I am a big believer in. And I established this with all my kids at a really young age is room time. Oh, yeah. is huge. Kids need to learn that they can be alone and be okay with that. And so when my kids, they would take the nap. And then when they transition what I did, I made it act like a big reward. Yeah. So I’m like, well, guess what? If you want to stay up in your bed, you can and you don’t have to get asleep. And I’m gonna put some books here which you guys stay in your room for the slaughter. Yeah, whatever. I really was a big believer, and then it changed to their whole room. And so my kids all did that for years. And so I’d have like, an hour and a half every afternoon. That I could have just some quiet it was a perfect. I mean, when I say stuff like that, you know, kids come out. There’s always I mean, yeah, whatever.

Melissa Kruger
It was just the pattern. And I I have seen it as my kids have age. The benefit is all my kids can entertain themselves. Like, without electronic devices. Yeah. I mean, they all have interests they they all like to read. I mean, they’re all comfortable being alone. And I think that’s really important. And it was really important for me. It was just, that was a way I could get a little time by myself every day. Yeah.

Jackie Hill Perry
Team room time all day. Yeah, we’ll say, Hey, girls, room time. Yep. And they just know go and mark down that hall. play with your toys. Yep. I don’t care. You can make a fort. That’s right. Do whatever you want. Just do it away from me. Yep. In Jesus name. I think one question that we received, which is one worth discussing, is in light of this pandemic, in light of just living in the world in general. Loneliness is a thing. You know, and I think we all even go through seasons, married unmarried, with children without having a job having not a job having a nightlife not have like where you just have these seasons of loneliness. How do we deal with that? How do we cope? How do we help friends that are in lonely places?

Jasmine Holmes
I think it’s important to understand that everybody gets lonely because sometimes I find I’ll be talking to People like, I’ll put up a question box on Instagram and somebody will ask a question and be like, well, it’s really easy for you to talk about x because you’re married. And I’m single, and I’m lonely. And I wish that I had your problems instead of my problems, because at least you’re not lonely. And there’s just such a misconception that why hood and motherhood means an end to loneliness. But sometimes it can be. It’s been for me, because I got married at 20, for most of my seasons of loneliness, and seasons of intense isolation have been as a mother, and had been as a wife.

Jasmine Holmes
And so I think, like, extending the conversation doesn’t erase the unique struggle of single Christians. Rather, it kind of unites us in this common thing that we all struggle with at different points in time. And there’s something so uniquely depressing about married loneliness, we’re all unique. They’re right there, like I shouldn’t feel so alone, but like bridging that gap, for whatever reason during the season is really difficult. Or motherhood, loneliness, and motherhood, where I just remember when Philip and I moved back to Mississippi when when was six weeks old. And we lived in pickins, Mississippi, on a dead end street that backed up to the woods.

Jasmine Holmes
And it was backed up to the highway or house had a tin roof was we had no reception. We had one car filled, drove at 45 minutes into Jackson are ready to go to work. And I live in the same street as my in laws. There’s no place to go out to eat. There’s no stoplights. There’s nothing to do. There’s $1 store. And I had postpartum depression and I didn’t realize it. And so Philip would come home from work every day. And he’d say, What did you do? And I’d say I don’t remember. Like I could have maybe just sat here and stared at that one spot in the wall over there all day. But I don’t know. I don’t know what I did. Because I was I was alone when I was lonely. And it was so crippling and so difficult. And so my heart goes out to anybody who during the pandemic has experienced that level of ice, it’s a picnic would have happened that year, that would be perfect. Oh,

Melissa Kruger
I’m already here.

Jasmine Holmes
We’re here. We’re like in the wilderness. We don’t know anybody. This is great or not great. But for anybody who has experienced that, during the pandemic, i My heart does go out to you and I I relate to that note that feeling of just like loneliness and depressive illness. And I think what I ended up doing with it was, first of all, somebody had to tell me, like, Hey, this is depression, and it’s not okay, that you feel that way. And there are things that we should do about it. And so something that I did is I got a job. I started teaching and I had taken like, nine months off of teaching, I started teaching again, it was just twice a week. And it was a way for me to get out of the house. I started writing again, that’s when I started blogging again, that’s when I started writing some stuff for TGC. And then I was sitting and I’ve spoken a couple conferences, and then I you know, I started kind of coming out of myself, and being more purposeful about being involved in ministry and in people’s lives. So the answer to loneliness wasn’t actually my husband or my kids. It was a body of Christ. And so often, I think that’s the case. Yeah.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. It’s difficult sometimes, though, because I don’t know how y’all feel. I mean, we’re all introverts. And sometimes the hardest thing for me is because I’ve gone through some of the probably deepest loneliness in my life in the past two years because of a church situation that we went through. But the weird thing was, what I almost didn’t need was more people do like sometimes you think the antidote to loneliness is people in your life. But it was so hard for me because social things became hard because what was going on? And I do think there are certain places of loneliness, that I felt the tenderness of the Lord saying, I know.

Melissa Kruger
And I’m with you. And I, like there’s a there’s a verse that says, no one else can know our sorrows. And no one else can share our joys or something like there is I think there are certain pains and maybe it’s the loneliness of singleness, or the loneliness of church hurt or the loneliness, of a miscarriage, or the certain things that we’re going through. I do think there’s this place that only the Lord can meet. And maybe by design so that we run to him because yeah, it’s difficult. It really is difficult, um, and that not to say, I still think so remember what Jackie, I think you tweeted it a long time ago. What he’ll church hurt the church. Yeah, yeah. So I think there’s this both and it’s, there are going to be certain things only the Lord can hit. But we desperately need the body of Christ to help us and our loneliness and it’s so because sometimes that’s where the wound happened. Yeah, yeah. And so it’s just the strange place. It takes faith to keep plugging in and keep going in and keep, keep entering it. But I think we can all say it’s worth it.

Jackie Hill Perry
And I’m glad that y’all both kind of highlighted that loneliness doesn’t necessarily mean lack of community. Yeah. But really, it’s even the people I’m around don’t see me. And and so I think that’s where the leaning into the Lord thing happens was because it’s like you do see you you do here you are knowledgeable about my situation. And oftentimes the way that you remedy it is through other people reminding me that you see me, you’re a bad person, Were you lonely? And they text you and say, Hey, you are my heart. Yeah. It’s like, oh, man, like, that’s a reminder that the Lord is placing me on the heart of the people because he sees my circumstance. And now he’s opening up a door where I can be seen by another human being by saying why I was most likely on your heart, you know.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I think that is just one of those good things to remember is that sometimes when I’m feeling lonely, I realize other people are lonely, too. Sometimes I’ve just asked, Lord, will you bring to mind people I need to pray for and then by reaching out to them, and just texting and saying, Hey, I was praying for you today. Sometimes you can feel connected, because I don’t know how y’all feel like sometimes I feel way too busy to have another social engagement. Like that’s, I want a deeper connection with people. Yeah, anyway, so I think there are ways that we can reach out to others that don’t require a lot of time but can make us feel connected and it’s gone now. Okay, last last of the questions, kind of this is a this is a sad way maybe to end the season. Maybe it’s a good way to end the season. What song would you want sung at your funeral?

Jackie Hill Perry
I love funerals. I’m a bit morbid I like watching serial killer documentaries and google like the autopsies of famous people and is this just me but uh as far as funerals to two songs are are what’s the word? I’m going to resurrect and come for my kids if they don’t make sure this is on the list. Great Is Thy Faithfulness and it needs to be sang by somebody that’s churchy.

Jasmine Holmes
No, no acoustic guitar.

Jackie Hill Perry
I need somebody churchy. I need an organ, I need some my screaming and yelling. Yeah, I they need to be screaming. Yes. I need at least at least 16 tongues to follow. And then the other one is Total Praise by because Total Praise is Total Praise. If you’ve never heard total praise, go to YouTube, type it in and then you understand why you need that. Hmm, that’s it.

Jasmine Holmes
My two are “I Won’t Complain” If by chance I could become friends with Cynthia Erivo , before I die, I want her to sing and then she outlives me. That would be my dream. My actual dream.

Jasmine Holmes
That would be a very pretty rendition.

Jasmine Holmes
After the color purple ended, they sang it to well, it didn’t end I think Heather Headley was leaving her, um, Broadway person, but she was leaving her role. And Cynthia Erivo sang the first verse of I won’t complain, which I already love so much. And then she sang it and I was like,…

Jackie Hill Perry
She sings like an angel.

Jasmine Holmes
She sounds like an angel. It was beautiful. So then on the opposite side of that, like I won’t I want an angelic like, I won’t complain. And then I want like a squalling like, throw your shoes in the air. I’m going up yonder going up.

Jasmine Holmes
Do you want it while like they’re marching your body down the aisle?

Jasmine Holmes
Yes, that’s the way I need it to be like, and now she’s like, I need I won’t complain. And people are like, Oh my gosh, it’s so beautiful and angelic, we love her. And then when I walk out and they say that going up about her go up and walked out. I’m just you being here, March me, March me out of there to going up yonder.

Jasmine Holmes
I think they played that during in Tony Evans wife’s funeral, Lois Evans. When she was being when her body was being moved out of the sanctuary,

Melissa Kruger
Y’all thought about your funeral is way more than I have.

Jackie Hill Perry
I have a whole plan.

Melissa Kruger
I realized when I saw this question, I was like, I’m so excited because I won’t be here to plan it. I know. And I’m like, gosh, so read this. The first thing that popped into my head was Great Is Thy Faithfulness? That was the first one for me. But then I actually really love and I know it’s like classic funeral home. I really love it. So muscle. I just love it. I just love the words. I love it. And I kind of like that it’s sad and somber because I think it’s okay to be sad. But it’s helpful to you know, it’s not really fun with this. So I’m glad it will be recorded now.

Jasmine Holmes
Come back to season three, episode nine.

Jackie Hill Perry
We move on up.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, to close up season three. If you’re at a dinner party, and you only know one person or yelling at the host or something like that. How do you strike up a conversation with someone who’s around you? I don’t know. Basically, we only been talking to each other.

Jasmine Holmes
I live in Jackson, Mississippi, and it’s very old south. And so I went to a dinner party, my first dinner party in Jackson. And the host is sat us next to people who we didn’t know on purpose. Like we didn’t sit next to our spouses. And I was just like, What am I supposed and it was like, a bunch of nerdy white people like it was like, it was like, well, “in the words of Joseph in the words of Shakespeare”. Yes, it was. We had a palate cleanser.

Melissa Kruger
Awesome Sorbet.

Jasmine Holmes
It was delicious. Yeah, the conversation was come very intellectual and very, like, you know, they were you like, do a joke in Latin. And they’re like “Oh Herb” And I don’t think I struck up a conversation with anybody. I think I just sat there. Like, yeah, okay, Dave. Yeah.

Jackie Hill Perry
That’s great. I’m not a conversation striker. But I feel like I always end up next to people that are. So that might be a part of my expectation is that I just, I don’t have to initiate it. Because there’s some extra extrovert roaming around here that cannot wait to speak to the quiet person. Yeah. It’s like they’re attracted. They are like, Oh, you’re not talking. So I need to talk to you. Let me help you. Yes. I just kind of know. Yeah, I follow their lead.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I have kind of a running list of questions in my brain. Because I, here’s what I find. People generally like talking about themselves. Yes. So if I just ask a couple of questions, then I just, they’re gonna talk. So that’s what I do. And so it might be, if we’re at like a wedding, I might say, how do you know the couple? Right? Yeah. Or if I just meet someone, I’ll say, So where did you grow up? I try to ask safe questions, because there are certain questions you realize that can get

Melissa Kruger
But even asking, what do you do? Well, then they’re like, Oh, well, I’m actually in between jobs again. Oh, maybe? You know, I don’t know. Or, I mean, I’ve asked a woman I just met before, so how many kids do you have? And then she’s like, wow, three here and one in heaven? You know, and you’re just like, Oh, I’m so then. You know, you didn’t even mean so I try to ask what I consider most people grew up somewhere. Yeah. What a pretty safe question.

Jasmine Holmes
I know a question you can ask “What song would you want to be played at your funeral?”

Melissa Kruger
That was really great.

Jasmine Holmes
Then you can Jesus juke if they’re not Christians and say, Well, you know, we’re all gonna die right? We’re gonna die someday you know where your talk to

Jasmine Holmes
Is your funeral going to be an opportunity to share the gospel of Christ with the soon to be dying as well?

Jackie Hill Perry
Pray with me say this prayer along with y’all should just remain quiet. J”esus, I’m a sinner. I acknowledged it come into my heart.”

Melissa Kruger
We’re so thankful that Crossway has been sponsoring this season of Let’s Talk. And specifically today, we’re going to be chatting a little bit about the book from Paul David Tripp, Do You Believe: 12 Historic Doctrines To Change Your Everyday Life? Jasmine, can you tell us a little bit about it?

Jasmine Holmes
I’m gonna read this quote, cuz I’m gonna get it exactly right. He says “True belief is always lived.” So in the book, he kind of talks about these 12 core doctrines, what they are, why they’re important and how they impact our everyday lives. And so it seems like a good kind of primer book. Maybe it’ll be a good book to read during devotions. Yeah. A good book for small group/homegroup.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, good. And we don’t have to be afraid of the word doctrine.

Jasmine Holmes
No, no. And Tripp is makes things so simple.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. Which is so good, because doctrine is really just what we believe about God. So it’s not scary, but sometimes I think we hear that word and we’re like, I’m gonna read one page. Yeah.

Jasmine Holmes
But he does a really good job of connecting it to everyday life to which is really good. Yeah. Jackie, where can we find it?

Jackie Hill Perry
Well, sadly, I don’t have this one in my trunk. But Amazon, you know, the other bookstore It is available or you can go to crossway.org/plus to find out how to get 30% off because like I said before, the Saints love a good deal. Well thank you for joining us for this season of let’s talk if you find yourself needing something to listen to in our absence, check out the other shows from The Gospel Coalition podcast network tgc.org/podcasts. Thanks, y’all.