Let’s Talk: Identifying False Teaching

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Jackie Hill Perry
Welcome to another episode of Let’s Talk where we talk about applying biblical wisdom to everyday life. If you enjoy listening to this podcast, we hope you’ll recommend it to others, your friends, your buckos your other saints, even some eights and share your favorite episodes with a friend. My name is Jackie Hill Perry and I am here with Melissa Kruger and Jasmine homes and today we are going to talk about identifying false teaching.

Jackie Hill Perry
What comes to your mind when you think of false teaching or a false teacher?

Jasmine Holmes
That Shai Linne song? Yes. false teacher. Yeah, that’s what comes to my mind immediately.

Melissa Kruger
What comes to my mind is probably a caricature, which is probably why they’re much harder to spot than what I want to think. Like I picture someone who’s just spewing out lies. And yet you’re sitting around thinking, wow, that guy’s clearly a false teacher. Yeah. You know, like saying things that just aren’t true. And that is obvious, right?

Jasmine Holmes
Like at like heresy, like just straight up. Like maybe I think of a cult leader.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, did you all see Waco? I don’t know if you all watched it, but like, it’s like, I think, oh, it’s someone that’s just clearly telling people, terrible, crazy things. And they follow him for some reason. And that’s a false teacher, which we definitely say that is a false year. You know, I mean, that makes them drink the Kool Aid, right? Yeah, I kind of think it’s that. But I don’t think that’s what the Bible talks about. You know, I mean, they’re talking about those types. Yeah. But I think it’s maybe more subtle than that.

Jackie Hill Perry
And I think it is, and because when I was studying through Jude, that was kinda like the whole point of his letter, which is there are people in here who are going on aware, unnoticed, that are teaching things that are not in line with the faith, but you don’t see it. Why? Because they look like you. Right. They might have went to seminary with you, they like, you know, coffee and Calvin too. It’s like they are a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Yeah. Right. And so to me, I think, man, the false teachers are the people that I just I’m not even recognizing our false teachers too.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. And I think it’s interesting how much Scripture warns about them, because I kind of think, Oh, this is a problem now that Christianity is maybe more popular. But you know, it was happening in the first century. I mean, when Paul is writing his letters, he’s actively warning them. I think, I have a pulled up II Peter 2. And this is interesting, because he relates it back to Israel, how they had false prophets. And he was like, wow, there have always been people saying, I speak for God who don’t speak for God. And so he says, but false prop.

Melissa Kruger
This is II Peter 2:1. False Prophets also arose among the people just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bought them, bring it upon themselves, swift destruction, and many will follow their sensuality. And because of them, the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed, they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. But I always think there are three kind of markers, pride, they have different teaching than Jesus. So it might Yeah, they somehow the word of truth is blasphemed. Yeah, in some way. Sensuality is normally about sex. And then greed is normally about money. So those three things are all in that passage, like kind of these are some ways we can maybe look, and it’s hard to see, because you’re it’s not about somebody having a house or whatever, that’s not necessarily a great thing. It could be because they open up their home and bring a lot of people in, right. But there are going to be certain markers that we’re going to be able to see.

Jackie Hill Perry
Because false teaching is profitable. Yeah. And so that’s often also why it’s hard to discern it because their ministries are successful. Right. Platforms are large,

Jasmine Holmes
Unless it’s a platform that we already don’t like, and I think sheep’s clothing doesn’t look the same for everybody. So for someone who has a proclivity towards, like asceticism who thinks that like having a hard and sparse life is a sign of godliness, godliness, a prosperity preacher is not going to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing for them, that’s just gonna be like, that’s gonna be really simple and easy to see, what might not be as easy for somebody like that to see might be, hey, we’re in medieval times, and you made a mistake. And so now if you just if you lash yourself, that means gonna be more pleased with you, or somebody who has a proclivity already to think that loneliness and pain is associated with godliness. It’s going to be like, Oh, okay, that seems like something that that could work for me.

Jasmine Holmes
In the same way a Christian nationalist in America is not going to be like a false teacher for them is not going to a Black Hebrew Israelite. Yes. Oh, my goodness, a Black Hebrew Israelite is not going to be that into that Christian nationalisms, like wolf in sheep’s clothing, they’re gonna be like, No, I know, that’s nothing that’s attracted me but a wolf in sheep’s clothing to them might be some q anon conspiracies or some other form of nationalism. So I think, I think sometimes we think that we’re really good at spotting false teachers, when in actuality, we’re just really good at spotting the thing that we already don’t like.

Jackie Hill Perry
Oh, in other words, what you’re saying is the Bible, which is for the time is coming, when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passion. Yes. Hmm. So in one sense, you can be blind or unable to identify false teachers, when false teachers are teaching what you actually believe is true. Yeah. Interesting.

Melissa Kruger
We all have idols, yes. You know, that mean something or thinking? That’s me? Like, what are my idols? And how am I gonna seek teachers who give that to me? I mean, cuz that’s what we do. And so it’s really, it goes with our idolatry conversation.

Jasmine Holmes
Somebody who is a high achiever, and who thinks that if you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and if you work really hard, you’re going to you’re going to get ahead in life would be attracted to maybe somebody who’s like a prosperity teacher, not in an outward way. But in more of a like, Hey, “Do these 10 Easy Steps”. Yeah. And if you just do them, you get the life you want, right?

Jasmine Holmes
And that, to me makes sense that somebody who’s like an achiever would, and for me, like, okay, so I’m an Enneagram, five, I know, every time we mentioned Enneagram, I just imagine, like, half of our listeners are like, Why was teaching sorry, um, but I love information from information comforts me so much. Like, just tell me how it works. Tell me what it is, and I’m gonna feel so much better. And for me, I think that I am sometimes attracted to people who have all the answers. Just give me give me the answers to my questions. And I’m going to listen to you, if you have answers that soothe me, if you have answers that comfort me, that is definitely something that I’ve noticed throughout my walk that I’m attracted to.

Melissa Kruger
Could you do that maybe sometimes at the expense of looking at their character? Yeah, cuz you just want give me the good. Yeah,

Jasmine Holmes
Just give me give me… you’re really smart. I know that you’re not very nice. And I know that you’re not very Christ, like, and I know that you don’t have the fruit of the Spirit. But you’ve got answers.

Jackie Hill Perry
That’s a really good point is that false teachers always have like, deceptive lives like your because the false teachers deceive themselves. Yeah. And so they are teaching what the they themselves either believe, or don’t believe what the aim is, is evil is to get money, fame, power, all the things. And so but that’s, that’s hard. I think it’s I think it’s easier or could be easier to identify false teachers within our own context, because we have access to their lives, even though Yeah, oftentimes false teachers will isolate themselves from that kind of exposure. Right. But I think publicly speaking, whether it’s people with platforms or pastors who churches we follow on YouTube or books, we may, like, it’s harder to discern, because all we have access to is their words.

Melissa Kruger
That’s right. Right. They go along with the Bible. We’re like, well, that sounds good. Right? You know, and I was struck, Paul Tripp in his book “Lead”, one point he makes is that when you look at the list of qualifications for an elder 11 of them, I think 11 or 12 of them are all on character, and one is on giftedness and that’s teaching one, but typically what we look for in it In a leader is they’re really good at teaching. They’re really good at managing, right? Well, they’re really we want all these skills. Yeah. And we forget to look at character. And so it’s like, it’s hard to know that about someone who’s platformed. For us. Yeah, it’s much. But the person you should be listening in Sunday to Sunday.

Melissa Kruger
Those are things you should start to recognize, you should start to see oh, is he kind of people? Is he patient with them? Right, gentle. Right. Yeah, it’s interesting that gentleness is in there, you know, not argumentative. You should be able to see that in their life. And, and then you have the other problem, though. I love that the scriptures are always too balanced. Watch your life and doctrine closely. Because you have other people who might be nice and funny and all these things, but their doctrine is it gets scripture loosey goosey. Yeah, so we can deny Christ not sometimes by how our lives look, but actually by what we’re teaching. So for teaching things that are contrary to Scripture, that’s clearly false teaching or, you know, if it says A and we say, well, that’s not true. It’s B.

Jackie Hill Perry
Yeah, the hard part with that, though, Miss Melissa, is that even the language of contrary to Scripture, yeah, can sometimes be become synonymous with contrary to my interpretation of Scripture? Yeah. Right. So how do we discern false teaching from one just a differing interpretation that does not break fellowship, right? Or Error? Yeah, where you’ve come to a conclusion. That’s not necessarily right. But let’s walk alongside each other until we come to the like, how do we discern it? Yeah. Because and I say, because on Twitter in particular, yep.

Jackie Hill Perry
People are very quick to accuse people of heresy and false teaching, just because their interpretation is different from mine. Someone could have an egalitarian framework. And now I’m saying they’re on their way to hell, just because we differ about gender roles within the church. Yeah, I don’t agree. Right. Right. That’s right.

Jasmine Holmes
So how to think Al Mohler talks about triage, like, theological triage, like what are first order issues, what are second order issues? What are third order issues? And basically, Melissa and I are Presbyterian. Um, which that’s new for me, but so I love saying it I’m like, Yeah, I’m presybterian. I grew up Baptist. That doesn’t mean that I think that everybody from my old church back home as a heretic because they believe in believers baptism, that just means I read the scriptures.

Melissa Kruger
It just means you became a heretic, right?

Jasmine Holmes
I became a heretic. My babies still had not been baptized, by the way, but we’re gonna after this, this one, I’m all done. We’re gonna just get them all that one. I was like, Philip, you gotta hurry up. Because when he’s gonna be like, six years old, and that’s like when Baptists baptize their children.

Melissa Kruger
We might have a little bit of a profession of faith. Right, right.

Jasmine Holmes
Like we got to make sure he doesn’t get Yeah. But that’s something and I’ve noticed a lot of times if that is not something that we want to heal that we’re dying on on social media,

Melissa Kruger
Whereas people used to kill each other about that, right? Put it into perspective.

Jasmine Holmes
Like Presbyterians used to drown Baptists like, “Oh, you want to be immersed?” Yeah, there you go. Forever. Like that. Like, yeah, that’s intense.

Melissa Kruger
We think Twitter is the new low, and Christendom. But we do need to remember, it’s, it’s been pretty intense on the right is right for a long time.

Jasmine Holmes
Right? Or the important thing about baptism is what it signifies, right? The covenant that it signifies and what we think about salvation and what we think about the gospel and what we think about. So baptism is the second order issue that does reflect what we think about first order issues. So first order is like the gospel. Michael Jordan has a really good video called What is the gospel? And he makes a really good point that often when we think about gospel, we think about all good things. So like, the gospel is loving your neighbor.

Jasmine Holmes
The gospel is, you know, raising your children in the faith. The gospel is the good Samaritan, like helping out. But in actuality, the gospel is a very specific message is the message of Genesis 3:15, which is, you have sinned. God has an answer for your sin. That answer is Jesus, he’s going to come back, he’s going to take care of your sin, and then you’re going to have a right relationship with God. That’s the gospel. There’s a lot of stuff in the Bible. That’s not the gospel. It’s truth, but it’s not the gospel. And so I think that part of understanding the difference between like a difference of interpretation that is less threatening than full out false teaching is understanding what the gospel is. So if somebody is messing with that first order thing is somebody saying for instance, And so that we really didn’t need Jesus to come and die for our sins. Or that, you know, we didn’t all fall in Adam. Right, exactly.

Jasmine Holmes
Those are the things that are like, Okay, well, that’s, that’s non negotiable, like, You’re wrong. I can’t, we can’t, we can’t have fellow we can’t have fellowship, then the second order issues or the issues were like, okay, baptism, don’t agree. So we’re probably not gonna be at the same church because I mean baptism to be this way. And you need baptism to be that way if your conviction, but even though we’re not at the same church, I still love you, you’re still a brother. Third order would be we disagree, but we can still be in fellowship with each other, like eschatology, which is the view of the in times pre male post Mel mill, that is the right one. But one of the four is gonna be wrong, right? We’re gonna figure it out when Jesus comes back, and but it does impact who we can be in fellowship with. That’s right, at our in our local bodies.

Melissa Kruger
That’s right. And I think that’s just a really helpful framework, as we have these discussions for knowing the difference between a disputable matter which you know, the scriptures talk about I think it’s in like Romans 14, where it says, Let no man be your judge. Yeah, like, these are disputable matters. And then Galatians five says, the acts of the sinful nature are obvious and list them out. And it says those who do these things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Melissa Kruger
Okay, so there’s a clear sign over here. We’re Paul’s talking about hey, somebody can’t eat food sacrifice to idols, somebody can write Be at peace. Think about your weaker brother be considered them. But that’s not false teaching. But when you start getting into teaching, yeah, we talked about this another episode, if anyone teaches the least of these two sin, saying it’s a good thing would you call good, evil and who call evil good? We start getting outside of what God says. These are salvation issues. Like if you’re doing this, you can’t be like, it’s not saying you can’t be part of the kingdom, it’s showing that you’re not part of the kingdom, right? Yeah, like certain behaviors.

Jackie Hill Perry
And you’re keeping other people out.

Jasmine Holmes
What are those behaviors?

Melissa Kruger
I always quote the NIV.

Melissa Kruger
So this is the ESV. “Now the work of the flesh are evident. sexual morality, impurity, sensuality, which is interesting because that’s the same word that was in false teachers. sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions divisions in the drunkenness orgies. And things like these, I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Jasmine Holmes
It’s the enmity in the strife for me, like, that’s what like, really sticks out to me, because we overlook that so much in our haste to call out false teachers. And to is almost like calling out false teachers has become a way to become more of a clique. Hmm, yeah, like very tribal. Yeah, it’s like, you can’t sit with us. Yeah. Which I was homeschooled. So I never got to do that. So I understand the lore. Even though if I was like, if I’d gone to my mom, and like, of course, I can say with her. But um, yeah. And plus, even if I was like, in another school, I wouldn’t have been cool enough to sit with the cool kids. So maybe this is like, people’s adult opportunity to just be like, you cannot sit with us like they they’re drawing these lines that have less to do with the Word of God and more to do with their identity as part of whatever group?

Jackie Hill Perry
Yeah, because we need love. I had to teach something a couple of weeks ago, and there was a portion of the message that was really hard, and confrontational and that I knew it was about idolatry. And I was calling out some particular cultural idols. and it grieved me, and even I just had anxiety about doing it, you know, it was just like a weight in a burden. And then I felt like the Lord was saying, you shouldn’t be excited to do this. Right? Like, it shouldn’t be fun to you to rebuke people, you know, and so it’s just like, oh, yeah, like, like, this should be like, I should be grieved to say, Whoa, was like, Whoa, like that’s that’s not like there’s a reason tears some hurts. Some some angst like Jeremiah attached to this. Yeah.

Jasmine Holmes
Like that weeping prophet. He was like, he was saying some hard stuff. And it was hard on him.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. Yeah. And it should be we shouldn’t be the lighting and tearing others down. Yeah. And that’s what it looks like sometimes, rather than deep desire for people to believe truth in Scripture. That’s a different thing. So when you’re calling someone out on a heart thing, it should be like, Hey, I’m grieving this

Jackie Hill Perry
That I even have to do this.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, yes. You know, I don’t think we should want to have to do that.

Jackie Hill Perry
Let’s say your friend is listening to a particular teacher, that is teaching philosophy that is leading people astray. And they don’t see it. How do you even come to your friend to say, maybe you should consider their doctrine and leave it?

Jasmine Holmes
I always ask questions. So I’ll say things like, what do you like about them? You know, what, how? What does how does what they say, make you want to be closer to God? I’m not even in like a, you know, an accusatory, like, what you like about them. But like, seriously, like, let’s talk about it. Like, oh, you listen to so. And so. That’s interesting. Like, tell me more. Tell me what you tell me what you like about that person? Tell me. You know, tell me how listen to that person makes you want to be more godly. Tell me how, in most of the time, that’s like a really good into, you know, maybe there’ll be like, I usually don’t just straight up be like, I don’t like that person. You should not listen to them and follow their false teacher.

Jasmine Holmes
It is disgusting. Gross. But in the course of that, like, what do you like about them conversation, I might get to the point where I’m like, That’s interesting. I have a hard time with that person. Because XYZ, maybe that’s something that you want to think about maybe something that I’m wrong about because I haven’t listened to that person as much. The dialogue I find is really important. Because a lot of times like, people will just say people are false teachers. Like sometimes people just don’t even know why they think somebody is a false teacher. They just heard it from somebody. They’re just like, she’s a false teacher. And you’re like, Okay, well, yeah, I’ve been called a false teacher. Yeah. And it’s like, well, tell me why. And it’s like, well, she just is seriously like

Melissa Kruger
I’ve had, I haven’t ever read any way the person has written.

Jasmine Holmes
I’ve had that conversation with people who are like, I don’t know, somebody asked me if you’re a false. Yeah, they were like, they’re like, Oh, I see that you. I think I think I had like, posted. gay girl, good God. And she was like, Well, did you know that she’s a false teacher? And I was like, No, I didn’t know that. Tell me more. And she said, Well, I just heard that she was a false teacher. And I kind of, you know, saw your beauty. She came back a couple months later and apologized and was like, Man, I’m

Jackie Hill Perry
So sorry that I got the whole Bible study about keeping your unboxing did that. Yeah. Teaching?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I think this is an important place to note. Because I’ve had the same DMS come in, not about either of you, actually, about we shared a resource and it was someone else. And it was like, well, don’t you know, she’s a false teacher. And it wasn’t even that I would agree with every way that this person says, I just, I really did like that book. Right? Yeah. Or maybe cost sharing or something I can’t remember. And I think this is a big difference. There’s a difference between a false teacher and maybe a person who has some point of doctrine wrong. I know, we just went through that triage, but there is a big difference between the two. Right? A false teacher is out for something they’re worth writing, to, to go against. And they may even think they have good motives. They may think but they’re doing it for purposes that aren’t about growing the kingdom. Yeah. And like watching God’s kingdom, it’s it’s a lot of time for Vainglory.

Jackie Hill Perry
Yeah, it because it’s not legitimate ignorance. Yeah. You know, where they just don’t have the tools and the resources in the community to come to a right understanding of Scripture, right, is that they are legitimately on purpose, twisting the text ignoring for their own glory and their own game. It’s a completely different thing.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, like actually one of my friends, Megan Hill, who I work with, I think she’d be okay with me sharing this. When I wrote in The Envy Of Eve, my first book, I said, I went through this pattern that you see in the garden, which is see covet, take and hide. And when I was applying that later, I said, we take glory from God, when we blah, blah, blah, whatever. And she wrote a review. We didn’t know each other at the time and she said, I’m a little uncomfortable with how she says, we take glory from God, because we can’t take word from God.

Melissa Kruger
I was like, she’s right. I said that wrong. But she didn’t call me a heretic because I said it wrong. Right? Yeah, she was on the same line was she believe marking a boy, I should have said we fail to rightly glorify when we do this. Yeah, I should have said it better. And she was 100%. Right. But she just said, Yeah, I’m not comfortable with how she said this or whatever. And that’s right. We can critique each other. We can say hey, There’s room to grow here. There’s, there are better ways to say things. That didn’t make me a heretic hopefully. And she didn’t call me one. And I think that’s where it’s these throw in labels out rather than saying, hey, this part I’m uncomfortable with that’s very different than now saying, and this means, you know, you’re a heretic

Jackie Hill Perry
It takes charity and patience, not this thirst in quick ness to accuse. Because I think the danger is, is that there may be some people that we are legitimate brothers and sisters in Christ, that we’re not slandering. Right. That’s right. And that’s sad. Absolutely. It is. Yes, at that point.

Jasmine Holmes
Yeah. I think also, just going back to what you guys were talking about earlier, it’s really important to that our main teachers are people whose lives we can observe. Because I think that and you know, Jackie, Melissa, and I will write books and speak places like keep coming. It’s the most boring influence should be the person whose life that you can actually examine, or at least at the very least, knowing that the person that you’re listening to the person that you’re being impacted by is in a healthy, functional local body and has people who are holding them accountable.

Jasmine Holmes
There’s one thing that I do like about the PCA is that like, people, if you’re a PCA, and you run into my book, or like me speaking somewhere, people are like, oh, yeah, her pastors Elbert, this is, you know, this is where he was trained. And this is what he does. And this is how he, you know, people have people have a connection and a context and they’re like, Okay, well, I at least know that she’s like, in a good church.

Melissa Kruger
And we’re actually hardwired, in a strange way, surprisingly, to trust have either reread. Malcolm Gladwell is talking to strangers. I love Gladwell, he’s, he’s not a well, he may be a Christian, I don’t know that he’s not writing in the Christian space. Let me say that. But talking to strangers, he actually discusses how hard it is to actually recognize someone who’s lying to you. Because we are so wired to just trust people, because that’s how society works. Like if we thought everyone was lying to us, all the time, the society wouldn’t function, Lord of the Flies. Yeah, yeah, you just function. And so I think it makes it really hard for us to spot the false teachers that we may be following. And so I think this gets down to I love Hebrews, where it talks about, but solid food is for the mature for those who have their powers of discernment, trained by constant practice constant practice, to distinguish good from evil.

Melissa Kruger
It’s gonna take us being in the Word, we can’t be lazy. Learners, right? Like, I have a responsibility to be in the word myself, if I want to know that that pastor or leader is giving me the word correctly. And I think a lot of us have gotten into what a mentor said to me, people who age well have learned how to self feed. And I think a lot of Christians, we only get food from somebody given it to us. And so we can’t discern whether it’s good food or not.

Jackie Hill Perry
Right. Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. Because I was, I think sometimes we think that we have to know all of the arguments, and all of the bad teaching to defend or can contend against it. But really just knowing the text, just knowing the Bible. What it says about Jesus what it says about the gospel, what it says about the nature and doctrine of God, what it says about salvation, what it says about the church, it says about all those things that already sets you up, where if someone is teaching falsely, now your antennas rise, because you’re like, oh, yeah, that, uh, Romans one says, you know, as I don’t have to know all the arguments, to contend against it. I just need to know what God says.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, it’s like, I felt this about cooking. You know, when you started cooking, I always follow the recipe, because that I didn’t know how to cook. But as I’ve cooked longer and longer, I can now taste the sauce and like, oh, that needs some more. Oh, that needs some more sauce. I can read a book and taste and be like, That’s off. That’s not right. Or something. Right? You know, like, because if you’ve spent the time in Scripture, right, you get a flavor for who Jesus is. You know, like, that’s not Jesus. Yeah, that’s not right. Yep.

Jackie Hill Perry
Amen. Amen. That’s our benediction. Now, it’s time for us to talk about not false things, but favorite things. I want to know what is your favorite children’s book? It could be one that you read when you were a kid or one that you read to your children.

Jasmine Holmes
Mind where the wild things are. Oh, that’s my favorite Marie Sindaco is my favorite children’s authors witches. Yes.

Melissa Kruger
Terrified. Mike said that too.

Jasmine Holmes
I loved it. So that tells you a lot about me

Jackie Hill Perry
Even the movie I was just “Man these look like real big demons”.

Jasmine Holmes
I loved it when he like, times them all with a magic trick I’m like Yeah, yeah. Get it Max. Tell those wild things where to go loved it and then my favorite one to read when actually loves Where the Wild Things Are now which I love it because at first he was like these pictures are really scary. I’m like no, no, let’s think you gotta you got to get into the fancy of it. But my favorite one to read to my siblings growing up was the Remarkable Farkle McBride and I read it to them so much that I literally haven’t memory I literally could. Right now give you the entire story of the Remarkable Farkle McBride because they just loved it so much that you read it over and over. So that’s a John Lithgow one, it’s pretty good.

Melissa Kruger
One I loved that is not popular now. It’s called The Little rabbit Who Wanted Red Wings. And I don’t know many people have read it because I think there’s kind of a maybe dramatic story in the middle. It’s about a little rabbit who wanted to be like a Rails like he wanted the he wanted the squirrels bushy tail. He wanted Yeah, just he’s going around on the animal kingdom wanting what they have. And he gets the ability. This old Mr. Groundhog tells them how to go wish at the swishy well, and it gets the little red wings.

Melissa Kruger
He sees a bird. He gets the wings and he’s miserable. But there’s a part in the story where he’s so miserable. He goes home and his mother doesn’t recognize him. And I think that’s why he doesn’t so because I think kids like a mom too. Right? There’s a great story about how sometimes wanting what everybody else has you realize doesn’t make you happy when you get it anyway. So it was a great, great little story. Cute little rabbit.

Jackie Hill Perry
Yeah, the one I remember. It’s not I don’t even know. It’s my favorite is just memorable is a HOLES. Do you remember the block? I just know the boy was bad. Yes. In the school.

Jasmine Holmes
Yeah, we read it a couple years ago in school. And then the kids came over and watched the movie.

Jackie Hill Perry
I just remember. I just all I just remember the experience. It’s so good. Looking forward to going home. So I could read that book and finishing it.

Jasmine Holmes
It’s time to talk about our sponsor again for this season, Crossway. And Crossway is, I think popular for many things. The principle of which though, is their ESV Study Bible.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I was really excited to get this in the mail. It is it is thick, you will look like a real Christian. When you come to church with us. Yes. But it has. I mean, it has amazing Maps has charts. It has all of these things for each book. And I find it so helpful. I was doing a study in May whom I didn’t know anything about the book. And it was really helpful for me to be able to look at the introduction. And there were just a few things that it said and I was like, Oh, that is really helpful. And so often study Bibles just great for that. It’s nice to be able to just check to make sure your interpretation yes hasn’t gone completely out of orthodoxy.

Jasmine Holmes
I use the introductions. And even if even when I’m in another Bible translation or another Bible, I will go to the ESV Study Bible for the before book introductions.

Melissa Kruger
That’s really nice. So it’s got 20,000 study notes, 80,000, cross references, 200 charts, 50 articles. And 240 full color maps.

Jasmine Holmes
Wow, that’s fancy.

Melissa Kruger
Somebody’s done some work.

Jasmine Holmes
Jackie, can you draw us a map, to find this treasure of a Bible?

Jackie Hill Perry
The map is your computer or your phone. Crossway.org/plus, and when you go, you’ll find out how to get 30% off because study Bibles ain’t cheap and the Saints love a good deal. They do. Alright, yeah, that’s it for this episode of Let’s talk. Thanks for joining us.