You might be an atheist. You might never step foot in a church. You might indulge in some pagan rituals. Maybe you even identify as a Jedi Knight! But if you live in the West, in much of Europe or North America or Australia, you don’t know the world apart from Christianity. It’s the water you swim in, the air you breathe.

That’s the main point of Glen Scrivener’s new book, The Air We Breathe: How We All Came to Believe in Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality. Glen is an ordained Church of England minister and evangelist who preaches Christ through writing, speaking, and online media. And, I’d like to note, he’s our third Australian guest so far in this season of Gospelbound.

He writes this in The Air We Breathe:

The extraordinary impact of Christianity is seen in the fact that you don’t notice it. You already hold particularly “Christian-ish” views, and the fact that you think of these values as natural, obvious, or universal shows how profoundly the Christian revolution has shaped you.

Just think of the cross. You might see it as a symbol of power. An oasis of relief amid crisis. A national flag, perhaps. But of course it’s originally a subversive artistic appropriation, at the very least. In fact, to identify this crucified man as God is the most revolutionary notion the world has ever entertained. Glen argues:

What would a Roman—breathing Roman air, kept in check by Roman brutalities, raised on Roman myths—make of the Christian claim? They would, of course, consider Christ an ass, his worshipers fools, and his religion a perversity.

Glen joins me on Gospelbound to discuss the patriarchy, consent, Christianity for weirdos, and more.