As we raise pastors’ kids, how do we model faith, repentance, steadfastness, and obedience without placing unnecessary or unrealistic pressures on our children? In our homes, how do we live out the message of the gospel beyond just Sunday mornings?
If you’re a pastor’s wife who has children of any age, you probably need to hear this truth louder than any pressure or expectation surrounding you: God is gracious to you as you raise your kids, he’s gracious toward your children, and his grace is sufficient for you as you journey through every season of parenthood.
In this episode of Front Row Seat, Kristen Wetherell and Kari Olson talk with Karen Hodge—pastor’s wife and mom of two adult children—about how to extend the grace and love of Jesus to our children who hold the unique role of being “pastors’ kids.” They discuss practical ways to teach our children how to take their hearts to their Heavenly Father, the importance of our family as our first ministry, and how to be consistent and intentional with our kids—especially during the teen and young adult years. Whatever season of parenting you’re in as a pastor’s wife, this conversation is for you.
Episode time stamps:
- Kari’s story of a hard morning at church (00:00)
- Introduction to Karen Hodge (4:12)
- Parenting through the highs and lows (6:57)
- Healthy, biblical expectations to have for our kids (10:53)
- Learning to coach our hearts and theirs (12:27)
- Magnifying the Lord together as a family (16:42)
- The principle of stewardship (19:20)
- Helping our kids love the church (21:00)
- The overflow and state of the heart (27:00)
- Never being shocked (31:00)
- Family is our first ministry (33:29)
- Final thoughts from Kristen and Kari (37:51)
Transcript
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
Kari Olson
Well, Kristen, I remember, one Sunday morning a couple years ago, years ago, I guess my kids were really little. And you know, we had a morning. My husband of course, left early, as he always does, and then I was to follow him later with the kids for first service. We had a morning that was filled with tantrums and tears and discipline and impatience. Oh, we were sluggish. And it was it was hard morning. Well, when we finally got to church late, we filed into the front row, and I noticed that one of my children was still holding on to the frustration of the morning, you could see it in her angry face, and her tightly crossed arms. And I was embarrassed. I was looking around noticing other people notice us and notice her and I felt like the mess of our morning was on full display in her countenance. It was my instinct to say, uncross your arms right now and put a smile on your face. People are watching us. You know mercifully, though, I did not say that. To her. I thought it I think I even went to go touch her. But God stopped me from saying that to her, and convicted me immediately that I was just about to give her a lesson and hypocrisy. teaching her how to act like things were okay when when they weren’t. I also was caring too much about how her actions were reflected on me. And I was embarrassed, I was thinking about me. And in that split second, he really helped me see my child, actually, and see that this little one is walking into our place of worship, so wound up, so closed off. And yes, I do think it was important for her to uncross her arms, but not because people were watching us, but really, for her heart, the sake of her own heart, so that she could open up physically and possibly her heart would follow and be in a posture before the Lord of receiving what he had for her this little seven year old what he had for her this morning at worship. Oh, that all happened in a split second. But God was so gracious to me and sharing like, Honey, please uncross your arms, you know, I could say in a kinder way, for a right reason instead of the wrong reason. Because I do know God is so gracious to to us as we parent. He’s gracious to our children, the ones who love Him and He loves Oh, he’s so gracious. But am I am I gracious to them as I parent them? You know, why is that so hard sometimes as a pastor’s wife.
Kristen Wetherell
Yeah. And I wonder how often I’m walking into church and the posture of my heart is this. You know, because I just want my kids to appear a certain way. Yes, you had a morning just like you guys. Did, you know? Yeah, yeah. It’s it’s it’s a hard thing to remember. As pastors wives that just because our kids have a pastor for a daddy doesn’t make them exempt from needing Jesus and His grace, like I do, like every single human being does. And yet, it’s so easy to forget that why is that? Well, I’m I’m so excited that this is our topic today. Because I have you know, Carrie, I have two little ones. I’m pregnant with my third. You know what it is to have three kids and to be raising pastor’s kids. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. So we are thrilled to welcome to front row seat Karen Hodge. Hi, Karen. We’re so glad that you’re here.
Karen Hodge
I’m thrilled to be with the two of you.
Kristen Wetherell
Oh, thrilled to have you. And Karen is married to Chris, who is a pastor at Village seven Presbyterian Church. They are based in Colorado Springs. And she also serves as the coordinator for PCA women’s ministry. And together Chris and Karen have two adult children. So we want to glean from you sister, this wisdom about what it means to raise pastor’s kids this morning. So welcome to front row seat. These are conversations of encouragement for pastors wives, by pastors wives. Karen, would you tell us a little bit about yourself? Who are you and what season of ministry are you in right now?
Karen Hodge
Sure. Well, you mentioned we’re in Colorado Springs. We’ve just been here eight months and so I’m still kind of learning the lay of the land here. And when out when we talk about kind of just raising our kids, it might be helpful for our listeners to know a little bit about our background. Our kids kind of had 1.0 and 2.0 pastor’s kids kind of locations, the first part of their life was church planting from scratch. And so they, they really that was we did that in South Florida. And and then the second part of their formative years was in Naperville, Illinois. And so for the for 13 years, they were there, and a larger church. And so I think both of those experiences shaped them. And so Chris and I have had the privilege of serving a lot in a lot of different kinds of contexts, a lot of different geographic contexts, church context, and I think all of them have shaped all of us, in fact, you know, you know, the idea of raising kids, I feel like they helped raise me to write because, you know, parenting is so much about our sanctification, exactly what we were talking about in the opening story. And then the the only other part of my story is I love to steward all those experiences, as I do women’s ministry across our denomination, the Presbyterian Church in America. And a lot of people that do women’s ministries are also pastors, wives, they wear as you know, wear many hats. So I have lots of conversations, when I put my pastor’s wife hat back on, not just my women’s ministry hat, so it’s a delight to talk about it today.
Kari Olson
Good. Good. Thank you for giving us a little history. Even your kids history and ministry, that does affect them that does shape who they are. God uses that. So as you look back over that time of raising pastor’s kids, what would you say was one of the greatest? I don’t know why it’s sometimes they don’t like these questions, but I want to hear your answers. What’s the greatest challenge? What was the greatest encouragement? As you look back over that time?
Karen Hodge
Well, I actually liked the way he asked the question, because they’re almost always coupled together, right? I always talk about ministry being the highest highs and the lowest lows, it’s both of those things. And Christ is shaping us in both of those places. But if I had to talk about maybe the some of the greatest challenges, you know, as we did life together, you know, I often talk about leadership. And of course, parenting is leadership is disappointing people at a rate that can absorb, there’s disappointments in ministry, and we see things. And so as we did life together, as a family, we often called ourselves, Team Hodge, you know, teammates had highs and lows. And so, but each one of the highs and the lows is a gospel classroom, to apply the gospel. In other words, people are going to disappoint us, we are going to disappoint other people in ministry. And so walking our heart through that applying the gospel, helping our kids to realize and us to realize that he is enough, he is sufficient, we are not. We are finite beings. And so there’s going to be disappointments. And so whether it’s observing something that was challenging or a conflict or a crisis in our church, or whether it was a joy, you know, how do we, how do we think about those rightly, in other words, we don’t take the glory, God gets all the glory when things are going great. And when things are going hard and challenging. It’s an opportunity for us to remember that we are dependent on him. And one of the things that gives me a lot of joy is you know, not only did we get to do life and ministry together, we took our kids along with us to do everything special in that started because we did church planting. And so whether that was putting up chairs, or you know, you know, helping get communion ready or passing out bulletins as a greeter. By the time my kids got to Naperville and they a church that had all the programs and staff and things like that. They they had had that formative experience to figure out how has God made me to serve the church. In other words, that’s not somebody else’s job. And even though I’m 10 years old, when I get to Naperville, Illinois, I want to serve Christ Church. And so, um, you know, third, John one, four says, I have no greater joy to see my children walking in truth. I mean, now my kids are serving in their local churches. Both of them are married when I was in DC, one of them’s up in Denver. And it’s interesting, both of them are in churches where they still set up chairs. And so sometimes they will call me and say, Hey, Mom, I’m on like, nursery greeting, you know, and I’m like, it. They love the ownership that they have in their local church, and they both are leaders in their church, but that started when they were three and four and five years old. So
Kari Olson
that’s that is precious.
Kristen Wetherell
Yeah, I think offering offering our kids from a young age, both in the home and outside the home, opportunities to do what God made them to do, right to be useful to be fruitful. That’s a wonderful privilege to give to our kids, and a great and a great joy. Well, let’s talk a little bit caring about expectations on the pastor’s kid. Because we know that those are a reality. People have them, um, they might be too high of expectations, you know, our kids, they should be perfect. They should they should know that right? Or they might be too low, just kind of the stereotype that pastors kids are the worst. They’re the worst kids in the whole church. Well, what’s give us the right and healthy and biblical expectation to have of our kids?
Karen Hodge
Right? Well, hey, listen, anybody who’s listening, that’s happened to you this week, there’s been a gap between maybe what you expected and what you experienced, or maybe an expectation that that is either real or perceived that somebody has maybe projected on you. I had a text yesterday where somebody said, you know, it’s like a pastor’s wife texts, I was thinking that you probably would really value being at this. So I am sending you all the information. So this woman was putting this expectation on me. And I mean, and after all these years, you know, I could, I could get my feathers ruffled. Or I could say, you know, what, she’s really is trying to invite me into something. Now, she went about it with it with a heavy hand. So what do we do when there’s a gap between that real or perceived expectation that somebody has projected onto us and I think there, there can be a difference. And I just want to say that, that was a real expectation that that lady just laid on me yesterday. Sometimes it’s what I perceive, you know, and so I walk into church, and I think, oh, everybody’s looking at me. And they, they’re, I perceive that they’re expecting me to maybe look a certain way, or like you were talking about your kids to act a certain way, or maybe in a women’s Bible study to have all the right answer just because my husband’s the pastor or whatever, or pray at a shower, because, you know, I’m the pastor’s wife, the all these little expectations, we got to coach our heart, you know, in that gap.
And I think, when that’s happened to my kids, when people have expected them, maybe at youth group to be able to do something, in a certain way, or have a certain answer, to be able to coach their own heart in that moment, and not absorb that, but to have a good biblical answer for that. In other words, is it okay to say, hey, I don’t really know the answer that or right, you know, or just say, What do you think and, and, you know, help them to learn to ask good questions in those moments, so they don’t feel like they have to take on a responsibility that’s not theirs. And so, again, that’s a gospel classroom, when there’s this gap between, you know, an expectation that’s thrust upon us and how life is really going to play itself out maybe on a Sunday morning or Wednesday night or, or even in our home when somebody comes in. And it’s not what they expected. I still remember a woman coming to my door. Early on, we were at church planning. And you know, of course, all ministry was in our house. And she she came in the door, she said, I’m sorry, what happened here? And so I, you know, she just saw toys everywhere. And you know, we’re, we were getting ready to host you know, a bunch of people in our home. And I said, Well, in that moment, is it discipleship, my message? Well, this is life, right? And there’s no difference between life and ministry. They’re integrated together. So if you want to come see me, you know, come on in, you know, if you want to come see my house, give me two weeks, right? You know, so I mean, at that moment, it was a discipleship moment to kind of say, what your expectation is that we have a perfect family and a perfect house. I want you to I want to reframe that for a second. And for you to think that this is not a bad thing. You’re coming into our home and we’re so excited that you’re here. I don’t know if that makes sense. But just Yeah, it’s it’s it’s applying the gospel but coaching our kids how to do that in the moment.
Kari Olson
That’s so good. I appreciate you saying that, because it’s very gracious, it’s a gracious response to to say, Oh, she’s inviting me into something or, you know, she had an x equation for me that she possibly doesn’t have for anybody else. And just to gently and whimsically kind of maybe with humor. That’s it’s very gracious. I remember my son was given this award one time by a camp, you know, the faith award because he was a pastor’s kid. And I was like, But does he FA? Did you see that in him? Like, did you like, we just I was I probably didn’t handle it as graciously as you. But I was like, Is this a real thing? Are you just expecting him to have faith? Because he’s a pastor’s kid, you know?
Karen Hodge
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That’s rough sometimes. And, and I think that, you know, I was just talking to a pastor’s wife this week. And she said, Well, what do you say when, you know, like, it was one of those fill in the blank moments, kind of like these expectations. And I said, over the years, I’ve just tried to, and again, it’s that gospel coaching to my own heart, have these little questions tucked in my back pocket. So when somebody comes at me with some kind of expectation, then I turn it around, and I try to ask them a question, to get them to think about things. And I, and I said, I have to actually coach myself ahead of time. Because in the moment, you know, in my flesh, I might want to say, You have no right to ask me that. Right. But so on the good days, when I can be prepared by heart, I can try to give a gentle answer. But yes.
Kristen Wetherell
Even for our kids, because you know, when they’re little I think we’re protecting them more Absolutely. Have to we just have to be present, right? But then as as they get older, that’s so helpful for them to write. How does, how does mom handle this? How does Dad handle this? handle this? That’s really good.
Kari Olson
I love that. Well, do you have certain, you know, like, verses or attributes of God, that that minister to you as you are raising your pastor’s kids?
Karen Hodge
Yeah, when I think about there’s probably two verses and it was so sweet that when you were preparing our hearts, one of them is Psalm 34. Three, glorify the Lord with me, Let us exalt his name together. And I talked about our family being a team. You know, when we think about glorifying the Lord, you know, some translations, they magnify the Lord with me. What does it look like as a family, whether you’re a doctor’s family, or a pastor’s family, or a teacher’s family or a plumber’s family, to magnify the Lord? Well, it’s that idea of a telescope, we something that’s very far away, like, you know, a constellation or a planet, bringing it near. And as we magnify the Lord together, we’re exalting his name together. And there’s something that’s really spectacular about a shared mission, a shared purpose, as a family. And so practically, how that worked out in our family is on Sunday night, you know, our kids would come in, you know, like, when they were little, we would do it from the dinner table, but like, or maybe after we’d had some in our home or after youth group, and we would talk about how Team Hodge was going to be deployed to, to magnify the Lord during the next week. And, and we would look at the schedule, and we’d say, you know, what, that looks like three or four nights out, or we’ve got these people coming over, or dad’s got this responsibility. And the question was, how can we together, magnify the Lord? And so if my kid was saying, Yeah, and I’ve got, you know, I’ve got to give a presentation on Thursday, and I’ve got this, or we got a youth retreat this weekend. So how are we working together? So that we would magnify the Lord as a family unit? So I think that’s, that’s been really significant. And the other thing I would say is, we had a lot of family principles. I don’t know if I’d call them rules. But one of them was shared fully for all as the Lord’s Okay, so that meant that when people came over, you know, that playground that doll, this food, this house, is God’s house is God’s toys, you know, and so, you know, especially in church planning, you know, we had to teach our kids and share fully for everything belongs to the Lord. And I still remember my daughter, Anna grace, coming out one night and saying, Hey, Mom, somebody broke God’s doll, what are you going to do about it? So you know what, in that moment, I’m like, she got it, okay.
Everything belongs to God. So, and the other principle we would say all the time is all of life is stewardship. So stewardship, I mean, we think in the church, sometimes we’re thinking not only about money, but it’s something of priceless value and trusted by the king for Kingdom purposes. And so helping our kids understand, you know, how God is what the gifts he’s entrusted that to them, the physical things, the emotional things, how do we invest those and so we talk about Second Corinthians nine. That passage where that just talks No, it’s kind of starts in verse eight and goes all the way through But it talks about sowing and reaping. And God loves a cheerful giver. And, and so the question was how as a family, can we live with open hands open hearts, to be good stewards of what he’s entrusted to our family in this season. And so that means we got to share fully for all as Oh, lord. So those two things really have guided us a lot, you know, over the years.
Kari Olson
Thank you for sharing that.
Kristen Wetherell
Yeah. I like I I’m really helped, especially by the, the shared mission. You know, my, my eldest is just five, five years old today, it’s her birthday. And so I feel like transitioning into girlhood. You know, we’re out of the toddler years, feasibly, she’s like a young girl now. And, and it’s been really fun to, to see her grasp more and to mature in her thinking, and her processing. And so that really encourages me to say, as the kids get older, and they mature, how can we put something like that before them? Like what is our our shared mission? That’s really good? Well, a couple things come to mind, Karen, that I think are particular challenges for the pastor’s family, particularly kids, one being, how can we help them love the church? So it’s not just a place that we’re at all the time? And then how can we help them? Walk through the curiosity of faith, right, asking, asking the hard questions, not being embarrassed by the questions just because I’m a pastor’s kid, doesn’t mean I don’t have questions. So could you talk about those two things a little bit?
Karen Hodge
Oh, sure. Yeah. Well, you know, we talked about ministry being highest highs and lowest lows, and there’s been a quote that has helped me and my kids over the years, and so on the hard things of what it looks like to love the church, John Calvin said, to necessarily love Christ is to love his church. I can’t say I don’t like those people. But I like Jesus, you know, so there can’t be this, that can’t be. So in that gap. We coach our heart and say, Jesus, I love you. I don’t have the love for the church being the people. And so I need your love to flow to me and then through me, and and realizing that we don’t have, we will not be able to love the church like Christ, of course, he laid down his life for the church. Yeah, that doesn’t mean that we don’t have good and right and healthy practices as a family. But what it means is that we, we seek to lay down our lives in such a way that it glorifies Him and so loving his church, I think, is serving his church, that’s the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and give his life. And so there’s great joy in serving, of course, it’s costly. But I think through the years, I’ve seen my kids learn to love the church and a lot of what shaped that was not just seeing their mom and dad, love the church, on the highs and the lows, but to surround them with older spiritual mothers and fathers who loved the church. And you know, what, we’re just attracted to those people, they have joy. And, and, and especially when we got to Naperville. Our kids kind of latched on to some older, they wanted, they desperately wanted to be with older, you know, mature believers. And they would ask, could I serve with you? And so I’m indebted to the spiritual mothers and fathers who said, hey, you know, Hey, stand at the door and greet with me, or, or could you help me do this? Because in those moments, they were being discipled by these spiritual mothers and fathers, but but it kindled in them a love for the church, even when things were hard. And then the other question you asked was, What does it look like? To kind of wrestle? wrestle? And I think, we like to say at our house, it’s always better to be more curious than certain. You know, I mean, we, you know, it’s, a lot of times people expect us to have the right answers. But a good posture is a posture of, we’re always learning. And it’s better to be more curious than certain. And so that means in a relationship, I can be asking questions. And I can be asking, I can feel the freedom to ask Jesus about the things that I’m not certain about, or that we can wrestle together with. And that is not something that scares us, but it actually draws us closer to the Father, because He loves us to come with questions. And so I think you model that at the kitchen table in the carpool line. You know, I mean, I remember crying when my youngest had and was he got his driver’s license. Because, you know, you would think, Oh, well, that was, you know, Hey, now I don’t have to do that. And where I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we are I am giving up some of the prime time question answering, you know, we are in locked in a car this is this a lie for me, you know. But so seize those moments. Every, every moment is a gospel classroom moment where we can wrestle through these things. And then, you know, and when, when. And I think the other thing that helps those two things is for parents to be cheaper printers. When I went, especially in the love for the church, when I don’t love the church, to actually show our children model for them, what repentance and belief and stepping back and faith looks like to say, You know what, I don’t I don’t love the church right now. But Christ does. And would you pray for me? You know, that I would love his church. Yeah, you know, and it’s been interesting as our kids have gotten older, I feel like we repented to them far more than they had to repent to us. And you know, that we’ve had lots of conversations about that as adult as they’ve gotten married, you know, what does this look like? So anyway?
Kari Olson
That I love that question. Would you pray for me in this, you know, it’s, it’s leads the way in vulnerability, but it’s truly I’m asking a sister in Christ, you know, to pray for me, I need that prayer support. And within your own family, which is such a blessing. I love that. You know, Karen, there are times this has happened in my own family, our kids will hear either from us like my story that I said, at the beginning, I’m tempted to say do this because you’re a pastor’s kid. And they’ve definitely heard from other people, you know, either shock, like, I can’t believe you did that you’re a pastor’s kid, or, you know, things. It’s, it’s such a burden. I’ve seen it burden my own children. How do we combat this as their parents as we’re raising them? Like you’ve mentioned some gracious answers, you know, to train them in those discipleship moments? But what do they need to hear from us at home consistently that combats that idea that they should be something good or better, because they’re a pastor’s kid? Or? I’m not sure. If I’m asking this the right way, but that just that whole idea I’m uncomfortable with and I want to combat it at home.
Karen Hodge
Right. And it’s, I like your posture. It’s we want to fight off this. I mean, because, you know, it’s not good for our heart. And I think we’ve we’ve alluded to this as in our conversations, that it’s really not about external behaviors. We know this, right? We know the right answers is not about external behavior, but it’s about what’s going on in the heart, and that we speak, and we act out of the overflow of our heart. And so I think even in those moments, especially when they’re little ones, like when when we say something, or we do something, and sometimes you see the shock, you know, in their face, like I can’t believe I just said that. That’s the gospel classroom when we show them, okay, this is something that came from our heart, right. And so, in those moments, when people are trying to project things on to us,
we have to have, we have to understand the state of our own heart. And so and so how do we do that as a pastor’s family, I think you just have regular check ins, we you know, we call it the state of the heart around here, like what’s the state of your heart, I mean, so whether that’s at bedtime, or around the kitchen table, helping our kids to be aware of what is going on in their heart so that when they hear something that comes from the outside that doesn’t gel with what’s going on the inside they feel that dissonance and and maybe instead of getting angry or frustrated, even though that would be understandable.
They they can learn to come to us as their you know their parents who represent our great parents, Jesus Christ. But if they quit come quickly with that, and they don’t they don’t you know, bury it as resentment or anger and I think that’s when there can be a transparency you know, and there can be an authenticity between what they see their dad saying on Sunday morning, what they see their mom and dad sitting at a kitchen table or in a before bedtime. When there’s no dissonance there, there can be not to say that we are perfect but we’re not we’re cheap for printers. And we are trying to say, yes, we’re we are teaching or preaching this. Our dad is doing this, but we’re also living this out in our home. Yeah. And so when you can have that rhythm of grace and the Gospel, then there can be lots of pathways to have lots of discussions. And I just think it’s, it’s the pathway towards spiritual maturity for our kids is learning and learning the state of their own heart and how they take their heart to the Father. Right.
Kristen Wetherell
Yeah, not not pretending like the messiness doesn’t exist, but open fronting it. Right. to the table. That’s really helpful.
Karen Hodge
Yeah, that’s, that’s great, Chris, and just having a good theology. Like, we’re not shocked. We live in a fallen world we we serve a fallen church and look in the mirror we are falling like, right, but we’re not scared by that. It’s actually a gift that the Father gives us in that it, it, it compels us to be dependent. So it’s good.
Kristen Wetherell
It’s really good. I once heard an older woman say she has kids who were, you know, high school into college and out of the house, and she, she asked her kids, why do you why do you still talk to dad and me? It was like, what what is it? Because we have such a good relationship? Like what is it that has kept that open? And warm, and that has fostered your relationship with the Lord really? And her kids said something to the effect of? Because you were never shocked? You were never shocked? Oh, that’s nothing was off the table? Yep. And what a sweet encouragement for us with younger kids to say, I shouldn’t be shocked. So I’m just not going to be you know, I’m going to receive my child and because I need the same grace, I need the same help.
Karen Hodge
Yeah, and I love I love that, Chris, it was, you know, what, we always would tell our kids, you’re always bear babies. You’re always bear children. But we’re walking with you into adulthood, where we’re going to be brothers and sisters in Christ. And, and, and we aren’t we actually told him again, we said, we’re gonna, we’re not going to do this. Well, when we make this transition, we know it. And so you can you have the freedom to come to us and coach us and say, Mom and Dad, I need you to be more of a brother and sister in Christ than to especially as they got, you know, into adulthood. And so we have regular repentance still, when we want to cling on and try to, you know, hang on to him, even when we spend time with them as adults. But but but they, we knew the trajectory was for them to be a brother and sister in Christ. And it it’s such a joy to be able to talk to them that way too. They teach us a lot.
Kristen Wetherell
Amen. So that’s really beautiful. Wow. Well, we’ll end with this question, Karen, because I feel this fear. I know a lot of other pastors wives do as well. But you know, you hear about the the cobblers son is the shoemaker who, whose own kids are barefoot because they’re so busy making shoes for others. And what encouragement would you give pastors wives and pastors regarding that, you know, this fear that our kids will somehow kind of get the short end of the stick from us because we’re so busy serving the church and serving other people.
Karen Hodge
Yeah, well, the Lord has convicted me of that over and over again. I you know, a lot of pastors wives have their kind of like their pocket meals, they take the people, you know, for me, it was always like a pot roast or chicken pot pie. And I remember having came in one day, and he said, It came in, he could smell the rose. And he said, So mom, who’s going to have roast tonight? Oh, host who are we going to have roast? Who’s going to have roasts? And so I was like, whoa, whoa, okay. So, in his mind, he cues up this smell means that mom is feeding other people and not feeding me. And I think that’s a good picture because our family,
there’s not a false dichotomy between family and ministry. All of life is ministry. All of life is sacred. And, and yet, we need to realize that our family is our first ministry. Our family is our ministry. Yeah. And, and out of the overflow of it. We serve other people. Because if we don’t have a family, we don’t have a ministry. And so that so so I think when we have a false dichotomy, and we and we pit them against one another, like there’s family, and there’s ministry, well, family, our family is our ministry, and but all of life is ministry and understanding what good healthy practices are for our family to be engaged in ministry will help from building up resentment it, and also having this disparity like we are serving other people at the expense of our family. I mean, I think there’s lots of admonitions throughout the New Testament that, that show us that when we that, that does not glorify the Lord when we do that. And so I think that’s where those little check ins that we did as a family each week, that that was our moment to say, You know what, this is out of balance here, we are doing too much. And we need to pull back here. And so we were, we were trying to have regular check ins, so that we didn’t end up having our children have no shoes on there. I’m not gonna say that there weren’t a few times, there were some scuffs and maybe a hole that here or there, but you know, but but, yeah, I think that that keeps our heart in a good place, if we can have regular check ins about that. So
Kari Olson
I’m, my kids are teenagers, preteen and two teenagers. And I’m just saying that, you know, we need to, we need to do that. We need to have those regular check ins. And I’m anticipating it being a little awkward at first, possibly, you know, but I’m encouraged by your consistency, and intentionality with your kids. In that way to say these are discipleship moments, yes, I’m going to teach you how to check in on your heart and take it to the Lord. I don’t expect you didn’t know that right now. You know, maybe they’ve never done it, maybe they’ve done it a little bit, but to be faithful, built in that fruit of the spirit of faithfulness and, and do something like that faithfully. I’m very encouraged to do that now, based on on your example. So thank you, thanks. Well, I
Karen Hodge
wasn’t consistent all the time. But I can tell you that usually when things dissolved, you know, in the in, people were weeping by thirsty. You know, in the week, we were like, okay, something’s amiss here. But that’s okay. And that’s one of the one of the beauties of walking with the father is we can have a, every moment is a moment for us to repent and to, to say, you know, what, tomorrow’s a new day for us to serve Him with gladness and, and, you know, we need to put maybe more margin in our day, or there needs to be more grace, or we need to have more just time where we can sit and be. And so instead of do so,
Kari Olson
thank you. Well, Karen, thank you for your time. Thank you for a conversation that really made the idea of raising pastor’s kids very helpful. Very, this was a gospel moment for us, I think, in a discipleship moment for us. And so thank you so much for for being on with us today.
Karen Hodge
It’s been my joy, it really has been.
Kari Olson
Kristin. Like I said, I that was such a helpful conversation to me on a topic that feels I feel the weight of every day raising pastor’s kids, you know, raising kids in general, but I’m so thankful for her insight. And even just that practical. I mean, she just had such nice, such good things to say that really helped me try to be practical in practice with my kids. One thing though, I really appreciate because it hits home for me, is when she said it’s better to be curious than certain. And whether that is about a relationship she said or you know, with it with a person or even their relationship with with God, like, he can handle our curiosity. And I think my I’ve seen in my own kids, the pressure they feel to be certain on something that they haven’t learned yet. They haven’t gone through something yet. They haven’t discovered about their relationship with God. Yeah. And we had a moment one time where one of my kids said, I don’t know if I believe that. And she kind of just threw it out there. And, and we were able to say, okay, you know, and yeah, tell me more, you know, type of thing, that little phrase Tell me more, you know, for me as a parent to be curious, instead of certain in, in the face of her curiosity. So I really appreciate that she affirmed that just kind of a, an attitude with each other, helping them discover their relationship with the Lord. That was very encouraging to me.
Kristen Wetherell
Right? Right. Nothing is shocking, right? We just when your child says I’m not sure that I believe that then we say great, let’s talk about it. Why Why do you say that? We believe it you know, what are you struggling struggling with? Exactly. And I think that’s so freeing, too, and it will combat this this goodness gospel. Yeah, that we that our hearts so often believe that, you know, if we’re not careful, we could even preach it, which is if I just To have all the right answers if I just do all the right things, then God will accept me and love me that’s not the gospel. No, right? The gospel is I bring to God all of my sin, all of my mess, all of my questions. And he still receives Me, because he’s gracious, you know. So I so appreciated her emphasis on the heart, not only for us as parents, but for our kids training them to check in on their own hearts, modeling that when they’re really little, you know, guiding them as they get older, then kind of setting them free to do it for themselves as they leave the house and, and then praying with all of our hearts that God would capture their hearts and their hearts would be his. Wow, that was just such a wonderful episode. And we hope that it nourish you that encourage you, sisters, God sees you in the front row seat. Don’t forget that. And he not only sees you, he sees your kids. He loves them, knows them and He cares for them perfectly, so much better than you ever could. And so you can rest in that. Thanks for joining us.
Visit the series page to watch more episodes of Front Row Seat and download a free reflection guide.
Kristen Wetherell is a pastor’s wife and a mother, writer, and speaker. She is the author of several books including Help for the Hungry Soul and Humble Moms, and coauthor of the award-winning Hope When It Hurts. Kristen also cohosts Front Row Seat—TGC’s video conversations of encouragement for pastor’s wives—and is a member of The Orchard in Arlington Heights, Illinois. Read more of Kristen’s writing on her website.
Kari Olson is the cohost of Front Row Seat, a video series from The Gospel Coalition for pastors’ wives. As a wife of a pastor, Kari has a heart for encouraging other pastors’ wives to live in sincerity and faithfulness to the Lord through all seasons of ministry. Kari’s husband, Tom, is campus pastor at The Orchard Evangelical Free Church. Kari loves serving the women at her church, leading Bible studies, and occasionally speaking at events. Kari and Tom reside in Barrington, Illinois, with their three teenage children.
Karen Hodge serves as the coordinator for PCA women’s ministry, where she seeks to connect women and churches to one another and to sound resources. She serves alongside her husband, pastor, and best friend, Chris, at Village Seven Presbyterian Church in Colorado Springs. Chris and Karen have two adult children, Anna and Haddon. She is the host of the enCourage podcast and, along with Susan Hunt, authored Transformed: Life-Taker to Life-Giver and Life-Giving Leadership.