Recovering Our Sanity Through the Fear of God

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Collin Hansen
Are you afraid of what’s happening in the world today, you should focus more on fearing God. Maybe that’s a somewhat simplistic way of restating the thesis to Michael Jordan’s latest book recovering our sanity how the fear of God conquers the fears that divide us, published by Zondervan reflective port argues that we can only conquer the wrong kinds of fear by embracing the right kind of fear. And that’s what he means by sanity. It means living with the grain of reality. Portland writes this, the real world is the one in which the Triune God is the central character in nature in history. And the illusion is that we’re in charge its autonomy.

Collin Hansen
That is the myth. And the sooner we raise our eyes to heaven, the sooner our sanity will be restored. Some readers might be surprised that Horton commends revival at least until they see what he means for heart and revival breaks out when Christians show up to church and hear from God in His Word. It’s so simple, and that’s his point. We don’t need spectacular miracles. We need basic obedience with basic obedience, Christians will have something different and compelling to offer a fearful, anxious world. Mike joins me now on gospel bound to discuss preaching and practicing hating and fearing persecution and apostasy among other serious topics. Mike, thank you for joining me on gospel bound.

Michael Horton
Collin, it’s a pleasure to be with you. You said it better than more laconically than I did.

Collin Hansen
Just using your words here. Michael, just start kind of where you are these days as your recent physical ailment changed your perspective at all on this book, it’s a difficult thing for an author, you work on it years, and then all of a sudden when it comes out. You’re stuck with a pretty serious physical challenge.

Michael Horton
Yeah, Colin, I you know, it is interesting. About three weeks ago, I had open heart surgery, and I had no idea I had any heart trouble. But it was an emergency. And doctors said I had to say goodbye to my wife and kids just in case. And it was it was touch and go. And I’m by God’s grace, recovering really? Well, I feel better than I’ve felt in a long time. But during that time, yeah, I mean, I was prepared to go I said to the Lord, I guess I’ll see in about five minutes. And I was afraid. I mean, I had I was face to face with that reality. But I really felt an overwhelming piece that there is some one greater than all of my fears, even the fear of dying fear of leaving my family. And it was really wonderful, Colin to actually experience that right up to the edge expectation that the next face you saw would be the face of Jesus Christ. And to know it’s true. It really is true. The fear of the fear of God trumps all the other fears, and the fear of God is a good fear. Not a bad one. It gives life instead of taking it.

Collin Hansen
Well. Yeah, I get when I was reading the book, I knew about your situation was praying for you with our staff at TGC. And I just that was the first thing I thought I wanted to ask was, how did that just play out in what was so clearly a very terrifying situation. And, you know, those those moments and in our personal lives, I feel as though in many ways, the last decade has given us all a lot of chances to reconsider what we think is to be important and what we what we know to be true as well. And to put that into practice, and you’ve devoted your life to teaching theology. You’ve been writing theology for decade after decade after decade. And based on the early church is something that stood out in your book based on the early church. Do you think Christians and maybe especially reformed ones, have focused too much on preaching, instead of practicing the faith? Not that those have to be a dichotomy, but it’s just one thing that stood out in your book that I wanted to ask you more about?

Michael Horton
Yeah, that’s a fantastic question. You know, of course, ideally, we would agree. Preaching is what feeds us so that we can, you know, we can move, live, work, do the things that we need to do. You don’t separate nourishment from doing and we can’t separate the word from action. But I think sometimes what we can do is just sit around and eat all the time. And I certainly have experienced that in in my own life, that it is sometimes easier to be a here than a doer of the word. And I do think yeah, there are, you know, the, the early Christians, let’s face it, they were not they weren’t all theologians, there were deficiencies in what a lot of the average Christian Sons. I mean, they were fleeing persecution, they were being harassed, thrown out of their families around the synagogue thrown out of their civic organizations, because they wouldn’t participate in the cult, there was a lot going on with the early Christians that didn’t give them the leisure, to read the books that we read, to sit around and listen to the go to the conferences, we go to and listen to the podcasts and so forth.

Michael Horton
Now that they had them, but they did have access to resources, but they they were in a, you know, what’s interesting is they were quiet, you know, as Paul told them, be quiet, work well with your hands, so you might have something to give to those in need. Be ready, Peter says to give to everyone and answer for the hope you have. But do it with gentleness and respect. They were ready to do that. And it’s interesting that even their critics said, All you guys talk about is Christ and Him crucified Christ and Him crucified. So they did know the gospel, and they were proclaiming the gospel. And also, they were living fruitful lives, serving others in the midst of great pain and frustration because of the gospel. And they weren’t whiners. I’m a whiner. Oh, good grief, I you know, I am such a first world guy.

Michael Horton
I just if Idon’t get that aisle seat, on the plane, I’m really in trouble. You know, it’s so easy for us to look around and see all the problems and say, These are the big issues that are sapping our strength and sapping our life, the early Christians would have said, Are you serious? Really? I don’t think so. And that’s partly because largely because they did have a big picture of God. And a realistic view of this world as finite time as finite themselves as finite, even their from their suffering, their physical persecution would be for a short time, it’s really amazing how they were equipped sufficiently with the Word of God, to be able to face these struggles. And I wonder if today, instead of talking about the Word of God, and then people being able to figure out how that plays in the world of our menial fears.

Michael Horton
We turn the other way around and say, well, here are the fears we’re facing. And now how do we use the Bible to sort of address those fears, and that just underscores the largeness of those secondary fears. For me, Colin, the, the big, the thing that kind of launched this book idea for me, was besides that, just concerned for myself, my family, my brothers and sisters, the fears I have was Daniel for, you know, the experience of Nebuchadnezzar. And I don’t know if you want to talk about that now. But that’s, you know, here’s a guy who has prancing on his roof of his penthouse suite, saying is, it’s not that’s not the great Babylon, which I have built for my power and glory. And just as soon as he’s doing that the dream, the vision that Daniel was given, for him came true. And he was driven out into the wilderness, his hair grew like the feathers of a bird, and he ate, he ate clay. By the way, this is the picture of hell for Babylonians. And he is basically humiliated. He said, at the end of that time, I raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored.

Michael Horton
Now I know that God does whatever he wants to do in the heights of heaven, and no one can hold back his hand or say to him, What have you done? That sanity, that sanity, because it’s going with the grain of reality. That’s the reality. But we keep living against the grain of reality, thinking we’re in charge, or the government’s in charge, you know, health care is in charge, or this movement I’m a part of, or this president that I really like or what we start surrendering, ceding all of this power to people who then say, Is this not the great Babylon, which I have built, and they have built it on our fears?

Collin Hansen
When you cover so much ground from that organizing principle from that biblical vision, you cover so much ground in the book? One of them is tribalism in our day, would you say Mike is the antidote for breaking out from tribes that organize as tribes do around hating or fearing the same people?

Michael Horton
If I’m afraid of let’s let’s say I’m afraid of government, then I’m going to be I’m going to find people like Me who are afraid of government, and I’m going to get down in the anti government silo. And I’m going to live and eat my food and do my daily chores in that silo, with other people who think like me, people used to actually get out, you know, and talk to their neighbors and do things, you know, soccer sit next to each other, with people who had very different political views, maybe even different religious views. And they would talk, they would get to know each other, and they would kind of maybe talk about politics a little, but it wasn’t like their whole life. Now, especially with cable, news channels, and social media channels, making billions of dollars off of our animosities toward each other, they put us in these silos.

Michael Horton
Now we put ourselves in these silos. And it’s a feedback loop. I know I’m mixing metaphors all over the place here. But if we just keep listening, basically, to people who already agree with us, confirmation bias, just all over the place. And it Stokes our fears, it makes us more fearful. And it’s not just the other people I disagree with, maybe misunderstand this point, or are misled here, or misinterpret the data over there. But they’re bad people, they’re evil. They, they they must be stopped, they must be silenced. And that’s what both sides are doing to each other. I don’t care whether you you know, it’s politics or social unrest and, and economic concerns, or how people feel about the Daily News. People are just polarized, like I’ve never seen before. And that I mean, in the church, and what we’re telling the world is, we are a fearful, terrified, brittle, frail, fragile, people who could break at any moment because we don’t know who our Lord is.

Collin Hansen
I’m going to quote you here, Mike, you you write the quote, the deep divisions among believers are not over doctrine and practice, or even over abortion and family values, but our ethnic, cultural, and socio political. Now, you’ve been writing about culture wars for a long time. Read your your early work on that topic. When did you first realize the true nature of these divisions that we’re seeing today, which I think you and I can both lament and relate to people that we would share a tremendous amount of confessional, theological unity and ecclesial unity on or even that, you know, that there’s division on these issues among people who share those, and also unity among people who are not even close to being on the same page with their theological confession or with their ecclesial views.

Michael Horton
That is it that is fascinating the way things are dividing not according to Christian confession, but according to cultural orientation. And, yeah, I think that one of the things that surprised me most Cullen about the recent studies, as you know, very well, so many really insightful data driven analyses have been done in the last several years that are really helpful and illuminating. Unfortunately, they point in the same direction. As I was writing that chapter on, why are we so divided in the church? I started crying in the middle of it, actually, because I thought, it can’t this can’t be I whittled it down process of elimination.

Michael Horton
Okay, it’s not this. Statistically, it’s not this. It’s not that why why are white and non white Christians, evangelicals, people who agree on here’s the list of the doctrinal essentials and practice in on some of those on some of some of those categories, African American evangelicals, were more likely to go to church, for example, were more likely to pray regularly to be engaged in their faith. And so it’s not that what so let’s go to the next thing. It’s got to be it’s got to be abortion and politics and African American and Latino not so much Asian believers, but African American Latina, there’s a tendency to go Democrat because of the the economic issues and because of the sensitivity to the history of exploitation and oppression. So that’s probably why but then you say why African Americans are more likely or not more, uh, are almost as likely as white evangelicals, and more likely than white population generally. To oppose abortion.

Michael Horton
So it’s not that I just the process of elimination, what is it? What it was, and I didn’t invent this, I’m leaning on other people, their analysis. These sociologists, it is mainly that white evangelicals, and it pains me to say this. But white evangelicals are more likely than any demographic group to answer any question about ethnicity in the most extreme fashion, in other words, we would like to see a law passed, that would restrict or even eliminate the possibility of immigration, at least from these countries, more than any demographic, more than any group in America, white evangelicals tended to take the most extreme position on that now, we’re not we’re not finished with this, we keep thinking.

Michael Horton
Okay, well, you know, I didn’t hold slaves, I didn’t, you know, we are right in the middle right now, of all sorts of ethnic strife, that is going to we’re going to look back, or our future generations will look back and say, this was a very big moment, for ethnic strife in America. We’re right in the middle of it. And we’re kind of imagining that we’re not and that we aren’t, we don’t have anything to do with this. But we do. And we, we now have a more multicultural society. That whether white evangelicals, such as ourselves, want to see that or not, that’s the reality. But again, raise our eyes, Let’s raise our eyes and our sanity will be restored. Raise our eyes to Revelation five, nine, that picture of the worship in heaven. You know, in heaven, where people from every tribe and race and tongue and people and nation are saying Worthy is the Lamb who was slain for all these people, from all these nations from all these tongues, and they’re all gathered in worship together. If we raise our eyes to heaven, then we, we might be more likely to pray may Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Collin Hansen
Yeah, I wonder if I wonder if this quote in here is, is connected? I think it is. And a lot of how I’ve assessed the dynamics that you’re describing there have a lot to do with our perception of where the greatest threat to the to the church comes in today. I had a discussion with some pastors this week. And we’re describing how some Christians believe that you need certain government protections, in order for the church to be able to do its mission, therefore, you must support whichever political party is more willing to support the church in that regard. That’s sort of a mild version, you can see that all the way toward the economist or integrity list positions, things like that. But a lot of it at a more basic level, Mike seems to me to come down to whether or not you see the primary threats to the church today, coming externally, or internally. And you’re pretty clear on your position on this book. This is a strong quote, I’ll read it here. The danger that to the true church comes not from the persecution of the Gentiles, but from the apostasy of professing churches to become absorbed into the bloodstream of this fading age. And worldly churches are always the worst enemies of the true Church. explain more about where you see that dynamic playing out today?

Michael Horton
Yeah, well, I mean, unfortunately, go back to the prophets, right the world, the worldly church persecuted the the true church. And if they didn’t care about truth, there was no you know, there was a famine of the Word of God in the land, even though they were going to the great festivals, and God said, take away the noise of your songs. But the prophets were persecuted by the priests and prophets, the false prophets and priests of the day and God to said to take away and stop saying the word of the Lord, the word of the Lord, I had a vision. But listen to what I’ve actually said. it. And you’ve seen that throughout the history of God’s people that the most violent persecution of the church has come from the so called Church itself.

Michael Horton
You can see that, you know, when when the church became aligned with the Empire, and now had the full backing of Caesar, and using the physical sword, to prosecute the enemies of of God, and sometimes that included Christians they disagreed with, then, you know, you come to throughout the Middle Ages, of course, and you come to the Reformation, it was not that the Reformers left the medieval church it was that the medieval church persecuted them out of your tried to persecute them out of existence. And yeah, well what held them up during all of that persecution? What held them up was that they were convinced there’s a word above all earthly powers, that no thanks to them. abideth the Spirit and the gifts are ours, through Him who with us sight of and this way you know that that goods in kindred go this mortal life, also the body, they may kill God’s truth, by to steal. That was the attitude that brought endurance and faithfulness. I just I don’t know about you call him but I love I’d love to see more of that attitude, not just the the truth, and the doctrine, but that attitude, that confidence in that word above all earthly powers.

Collin Hansen
Yeah. You’re given a good example of the flavor of this book. And what I appreciated about it, it’s this. It’s this call to courage, a proper Fear leads to courage. And it leads us away from wind Enos, I got little kids, I appreciate I appreciate that. Now, another question. Related note here, why is looking to leadership who will protect quote unquote, Christian America, crippling as you write to the church’s missionary mandate? Who want to ask I think this requires some clarification, because I don’t think we’re saying that anybody wants a less Christian America. So it seems as though you will need to clarify that. And we can refer people probably also back to a previous episode, we did our Gospel bound together on Christian nationalism.

Michael Horton
Right. And then and lots of other historical work that you’ve done, and interviews you’ve had that have been so enlightening. Yeah, right. I mean, we could talk to the cows come home about how Christian America has been. And even in those Christian moments, moments of Christian piety, whether we have been hypocritical and actually to face in our, you know, at the same time, we’re holding up a Bible and preaching about the sacredness of marriage, we’re enslaving people. And no history is perfect, because we’re all sinners. And we got to start there total depravity. We’ve got to start there. No, we don’t we don’t want less Christian influence in America.

Michael Horton
I’ll tell you this. If the Christian influence we have in America is anything like people holding up crosses, as they stormed the United States Capitol, then I’m not sure what that means. I know what the world thinks when they think more Christian influence. So I think that this is dangerous on two fronts. First of all, internally, it weakens the church because the church, the church starts, depending on the world, for it safety, lots of passages where Jesus says, Don’t do that. But then also, externally in terms of our witness, what are we telling the world? When we do that? Are we saying that the word of God isn’t actually powerful? The word can’t do its work, that the word word needs the help of Caesar in order to accomplish its ends. I have some wonderful quotes in there from James Madison, where he says he talks about the importance of distinguishing the kingdom of Christ from the kingdoms of this world. In order to his every period in history, where the church has depended upon the arm of Caesar, it has become worldly. It has been weakened.

Michael Horton
And I thought it’s interesting. Madison wasn’t making an argument about the church being dangerous to the state. He was making an argument about the favor of the political rule being a danger to the church, the church, desiring that kind of support. So I think that the church is always healthiest when it says, we have a faith we can defend. We’ve defended through argument, through through through kind and gentle debate through respect. We do it through action. We do it through good works, we do it through loving our neighbor, even our neighbors we disagree with strongly. When we do this, when we act out of courage because of Christ being on our side, when we do it out of knowing that the fear of God drives out all these other fears, when we do it, knowing that if God is for us, who can be against us, when we do it out of that, we can love everybody, we can serve everybody, we can endure anything. Because we know, this is not the greatest fear.

Michael Horton
These are not the greatest fears. Now my neighbor becomes a gift instead of a threat. And I think we see our neighbors right now we see our spouses, our children, our parents as they age, we see people who are different from us, people who come from a different background, ethnicity, we we see people as threats, instead of his gift. Oh, great. Here’s another opportunity. Another opportunity not only for me to love and serve, but to be loved and served by another person who’s different from me. That, I think is something we desperately need it not only internally, but also as a witness to the world to say, look, we don’t depend the church does not depend on the world at all. Now we want to work for religious freedom in this country.

Michael Horton
This is not okay. Well, we don’t you know, Christians don’t have any, any dog in this race. No, we do. We want religious freedom. We don’t really want religious freedom. So the gospel can go forward. I used to pray that, Lord, thank You that we live in a country where there’s religious freedom, so we can preach the gospel, we can preach the gospel, well, whether there’s religious freedom or not. Our king conditions us not the President of the United States, we have his mandate. And we go ahead and we preach anyway. But here’s the thing. So I can preach anyway, I can preach the gospel in a communist state, I can preach the gospel, wherever because Christ has given me that authority. But I want my non Christian neighbors to have the same freedom, that I have the same freedom that I have to practice their religious beliefs freely, because one can only be saved through faith. And that faith is a gift of God. It can’t be coerced.

Collin Hansen
Got a couple more questions here with Michael Horton talking about recovering our sanity how the fear of God conquers the fears that divide us. This might be Mike, because I’ve been reading too much about Henry the eighth’s lately. So just take that as a caveat. Okay. That’s a that’s an ominous lead in this question. You write this quote, whenever Christians is read along lines, what you’ve been saying, whenever Christians want to feel proud and well liked by the world by power is always causes a change in the message, that from the kingdoms perspective is far worse than being persecuted for preaching the gospel. I wonder about different times in history, though, where Christians have sometimes even glorified martyrdom in unhelpful ways. But I also wonder more broadly, it seems like the reformer is sometimes made deals with power, so they can preserve the preaching of the gospel. I don’t deal with that.

Michael Horton
Yeah, well, we do what my telling has. It is I mean, there’s too much glorifying of men and women in the church today, and in reformed circles, the reformers and the Puritans and so forth. I mean, you know, the Puritans, no less wanted the government to ensure the true preaching of the gospel and administration of the sacraments. Then the Episcopalians it was in New England, if you were a Baptist, you were exiled. If you were a Quaker, you were killed. So that’s pretty much the way it was in Christendom. And so now the persecuted became persecutors.

Michael Horton
Yes, unfortunately. So Luther says that, these two kingdoms have to be completely distinguished. He says, Look, the the Word did it all. I didn’t do anything, the word did it all, the word has to be free to go do its work, and the word will accomplish everything. We don’t need Caesar to help us. But then, of course, he was surrounded by Caesar, surrounded by princes, who ensured that his flock wasn’t killed. And then they kept out others from certain territories. And then Calvin in Geneva, you know, wanted a lighter sentence for Servetus. But he wanted a sentence. And after the burning of Servetus, Calvin wrote a treatise defending the burning of heretics who deny the Trinity. So you don’t want it shows again and again, is that the church is the is the part of the world that’s being saved, because it needs saving. It is part of the world. It’s part of the Fallen sin curse world. It’s just that part of the world that’s on its knees, confessing its sins, and it has an advocate. But the church has got to confess it sins.

Collin Hansen
Well, last question I’ve got here on the book. And this might be I think, Mike, the most powerful quote, at least to me, you say this, as a minister today, my greatest fear is not of them. But of us. I’m afraid that tomorrow’s most vocal acolytes of them may well be people who once belonged to us, then instead of communities of faith, our churches were incubators of resentment, where young people only experienced a superficially Christian subculture, and quote, let’s try to turn this hopeful here. What’s the most urgent thing Christians must do today to reverse this trend?

Michael Horton
Well, one of the things that that quote brings up is our own families, in our own churches, I have a lot of statistics in there a lot of stories from people that readers will know, people who are kind of known in pop culture as critics of Christianity, the people who are the angriest about the Christian faith, are people who’ve grown up in it. And we have to ask ourselves, why now, of course, people who leave it, there are a lot of people, they’ve left us because they were not of us. But there are a lot, a lot of people who say, I would come back, if they weren’t so mean, if they didn’t, if they didn’t exclude me, if they didn’t push me out. I’ve seen this happen. I’ve seen well, meaning churches, thinking that they’re standing up for truth, take sheep, who are confused, who are, are tossed around on the sea lit with their their social media feeds, and kind of in this group and that group, they’re torn between the what what what the church is telling them, and what their peers are telling them, and what social media and Hollywood is telling. They’re torn by all of this.

Michael Horton
And instead of helping them through it, it’s what they get is this fear, this terror, that you’re one of them. And so they’re cast out, or just sort of not included. That is a large measure in two thirds, for instance, of the LGBT community grew up in in conservative Christian churches, a lot of them say they’d come back without the church changing its position on these issues. If they were loved, if they were loved, that’s all if they were loved. I don’t know what that means. To what extent does love mean, you know, accepting the practice? And so what would that mean? They say, I’d come back, even if, if the policy didn’t change. I don’t know I but I do know this, that pastors really need to understand, I believe, the crisis that’s going on in with young people in terms of mental health, in terms of gender identity, in terms of all sorts of issues that are pressing in upon young people like never before. It’s not because young Christians are raising their hands saying, I, I want to be worldly.

Michael Horton
I want to be like the world. There’s confusion, there’s internal turmoil. And are we going to treat people like sheep who need to be shepherded? Or are we going to treat people like goats who are wolves who need to be driven away? That’s, I think, probably the we can show the world. Again, internally, we can be healthy and externally, we can show the world how we handle these issues, how we handle the fears that grip the rest of the world differently than you see on CNN, or Fox.

Collin Hansen
Am I understanding you, right? Rightly, Mike, that the key here is that the church needs a healthy dose of humility for self criticism, because we need saving. We’re the people who need saving and recognize that, in that the way we get that is through a proper fear of God. Am I understanding that connection back to sort of underlying everything here?

Michael Horton
Yeah, absolutely. And that the right fear of God will drive us to Christ. And then we will have a different kind of fear, which is all respect gratitude to different different kinds of fear of the psalmist says, You have shown me mercy, you have forgiven my sins, therefore will I fear you. There’s a different kind of fear and a different sense there. We need both senses of fear today. And fear does mean fear. By the way, fear doesn’t mean just respect. Fear means fear. And I’ll tell you one thing, God, God will God will be feared. He will be feared

Collin Hansen
Moses. Moses seems pretty scared. Yeah.

Michael Horton
Everybody, every time an angel, an angel, even got an angel appeared to somebody. The angel had to say, hey, here, just chill.

Collin Hansen
Well, I’m going to do a quick wrap up lightning round with with Michael Horton. We’ve been talking about his book, recovering our sanity, the fear of God conquers the fears that divide us published by Zondervan reflective Michael, do these things quick? How do you find calm in the storm? Including obviously, in your recent your recent life?

Michael Horton
Yeah, obviously, you know, we talk to God through prayer, he talks us through His Word. We have heard that a million times. But it’s true. Because we find solace when we hear God speaking to us drowning out all the noise of the world. I think that we find solace also when we hear His word through the lips of another senator. Not only pastors, but also brothers and sisters, every day. But let’s let’s let’s go back to church. And let’s also hang out with our brothers and sisters and all the nonsense on CNN and Fox. Let’s just turn it off. And listen to the good news that our brothers and sisters are about to tell us.

Collin Hansen
Well, that’s my second question. Where do you find good news today? Sounds like for your brothers and sisters in Christ. Yeah. Last one, then I know people want to know this one. What’s the last great book you’ve read?

Michael Horton
Well, right now I’m deep sea diving in a bunch of books that I wouldn’t say are the best books that I’ve that I’ve read. But you know, I think probably going back to Augustine city of God, in the midst of all this stuff that’s going on it I just read it differently, I guess than I had previously. It made so much sense in the light of what we’re going through today. And a lot of people would recommend that book. I’m sure you would. That’s probably if we really want to see how, you know, Jerome, and Augustine were contemporaries. And when Rome fell, Jerome’s response was fear. He says, What are we? What are we going to do now that what is the what is to become of the church now that Rome has fallen? And Augustine said, What are you talking about? God has brought the mission field to the missionaries. And within two generations, the barbarians were better Christians.

Collin Hansen
I love I love that perspective. That’s what this podcast is all about. That’s what gospel bound is all about. And I think it’s a great way to close that reinforce here and have a consistent theme that Augustine situation seems somewhat analogous in important ways to ours in some scary ways, certainly, but important ways. And Augustine his perspective also seems to be one that’s especially valuable to us. Get my guests on gospel bound. This week’s been Michael Horton, his book recovering our sanity how the fear of God conquers the fears that divide us. Check it out. New from Zondervan, reflective Mike, we’re glad you’re healing well, we really appreciate your work.

Michael Horton
Thank you, Collin. I appreciate your work so much. Thanks for all you’re doing.