Live: Bible Study in the Local Church Matters

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Courtney Doctor
So I benefit when my friends do their homework and show up. I benefit a lot more from that than my friends that show up. Their pages are blank and they’re just talking off the top of their head. Let’s just say come to Bible study whether you’ve done your homework or not. But if you’re characterized by not doing your homework, then I would say you need to dig in. You need to be doing that work by yourself.

Courtney Doctor
Hey, friends, before this episode begins, we wanted to let you know that there were some technical difficulties and we’re actually missing the first few minutes of our conversation. There may also be a few times that the audio and video drop out, and we’re sorry about that. Thanks for bearing with us. To the best of my knowledge, I had just asked Melissa to talk about what reading the Bible does for us, that reading a regular book, even a really good one, what a regular book can’t do for us. So that’s where we were in our conversation.

Melissa Kruger
I was really struck by John saying that in his talk just a minute ago. Sorry for listening. John Piper just preached on Ephesians one go listen to that. But this is revelation. And so we say, Oh, the eternal, omnipotent God of all the universe chose to speak, and he revealed himself in this word. And so when we come to this, this isn’t another human who has some good things to say. This is the God of all the universe, and he’s speaking to us as a people, and we get to study it together. And just like the God of Genesis spoke and the world came, he speaks, and we’re changed. And so when we get the privilege of doing this together, this is how the world has changed. As we come together, we study God’s Word and we leave different people. Yeah. So why do we do it then, in the local church, that’s what we’re talking about here.

Courtney Doctor
That is what we’re talking about here. So about here. So the local church now, there are so many I have benefited from, many studies that are para church Bible studies, and my my mom has benefited like I have been in those. They are fantastic. So we’re not saying those are not good, and this is the only way. But what we are going to talk about is what is unique and different about doing a Bible study in the local church. And so there are things that can happen in the context of local church that don’t happen outside of so when you get together as a group of women and you decide to study the Bible together, there’s actually opportunities for you and to not only use your gifts, but also the gifts of those around you. And so there’s an invitation to you know somebody has a gift of hospitality, we’ll bring that to the Bible study. There’s there’s stewardship of your gifts, and there’s opportunities to do that in the context of the local church, but there’s also opportunities that are, that are different for evangelism, and we’re going to talk a little bit about that, because we both just have such a heart that all of our Bible studies would have space to invite unbelievers in. But with with evangelism, if you are inviting your neighbors and your coworkers into the Bible study in your local church, then they are forming relationships and friendships and bonds with people, with women in that local church. And so this is and we’re going to talk a little bit about whether it’s in the church building or in somebody’s house, but, but regardless, those relationships are being built, and if you are doing it in the building of the local church, then if somebody walks in on a Wednesday night or a Thursday morning, or whenever your Bible study is, it is a lot easier than to walk through that door on a Sunday morning. And so there is an invitation into the life of the church through the Bible study. And so they’re just, we just really love the idea, and then the relational aspect of it that is happening as we are being. I mean, the whole conference is alive together, that we are built together as the whole body is joined together. And there is something unique, something supernatural, something mystical, something spiritual, something beautiful about what’s supposed to happen in the local church. And so when we are gathering together and we are studying the word that is, you know the strength of our friendship is always limited by what the strength of the bond is that unites you. And so I have great friends that I’ve played tennis with. I have great friends that I’ve been in just regular book clubs with, but there is nothing like the friendship of the person that you study the living, active Word of God with. And so it is. It’s just building and strengthening those relationships in the local church. So we’re both just going to be huge fans of it being with the body. That you have been called to be a part of. So in the local church, we have pastors, and we have minute we have leaders. Church leaders, what role do you think church leaders like? What is the role of of the whole church playing a part in kind of the selection of curriculum, or the vetting of curriculum, or maybe the participation, talk to me a little bit about like the pastor and his role in a women’s Bible study in the local church.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. Well, I think we would all say this. We hope that we’re not siloed, you know, as we’re doing this. And so I think that the beauty of doing Bible study in your local church is it’s supposed to be a family. Now, we all know sometimes it feels like a dysfunctional family, but we have those too, and you know, but it’s supposed to be this family feeling, and this is actually the place where we have the care of shepherds and elders, and so that’s one of the benefits of just even doing Bible study in the local church anyway, but what we don’t want is, and it doesn’t matter if it’s, you know, a men’s Bible study, if it’s a mixed group, or if it’s just a women’s Bible study, all three of those we I think it’s really helpful if the elders of the church, if the leadership of the church, is heavily involved in Hey, our small groups, home groups, or whatever you call them. I know every church calls them something different. We’re going to study this together because maybe it goes with the sermon series. Or the women’s Bible study is going to study this because we’re really focused on prayer this year. So they’re going to study this Bible study on prayer this year, or something like that. I think that level of thoughtfulness is really helpful. And so I just encourage if you’re in the local church, and maybe you’re a women’s ministry leader or small groups leader, or whatever you might be doing, you know, to ask, Hey, does it matter what we pick and ask for that involvement. Because I think that can lead to a really beautiful, engrafted you know, the whole church is working together, and we’re not just siloed. Oh, that group’s doing this, and that group’s doing this, but it can be this beautiful thing. But if you are picking curriculum, I think this is one of the hardest things for anyone who’s picked because you can Google a Bible study on John and 20 come up. What are you looking for when you’re picking a Bible study

Courtney Doctor
for the local church? Can I say something about what you were just talking about first? So that whole idea of aligning it when so Melissa and I both have served as Director of women’s ministry in the local church for years, and I remember the opportunity that we had to align the women’s Bible study with the sermon series, and we had done it once where our pastor was preaching through James and so we studied the book of Proverbs, just Old Testament, New Testament, Wisdom literature, and then he was preaching through the book of Ezekiel. And I was thinking, you know what in the world? So, so we met and talked about it, and we decided, as the women’s Bible study, to study the book of Joshua. And so we were studying in women’s Bible study, their entrance into the land, and on Sunday mornings, we were hearing about the exile from the land. And the ability to make those connections was just really beautiful and really powerful and so so there are just a lot of ways that you can align, not just with sermon series, but with kind of the initiatives, like, sometimes churches will spend a year or two trying to increase biblical or Bible literacy, and sometimes they’ll spend a year or two trying to increase missional living. And so, how can you participate with what’s happening in the life of the broader Church, the whole church, with what’s happening in your Bible study, In women’s ministry and so, but picking curriculum? So that’s one thing, like, how are you aligned with what’s happening in the church? How are you addressing what’s happening with the women that you’ve been called to help and to steward, or the women that you know and love, and you’re going to gather together to meet and to join you in this study. What’s happening? Do they need a Bible study on suffering and suffering. Well, do they need a Bible study on how to pray? Do they need to behold the beauty of Christ? Do they need to understand the power of God like what’s happening in the life of the women that you’re studying with, and then have a rubric? So this was something I learned in seminary from from a professor who was she had her PhD in Christian education, and she had us do these rubrics. And so I wrote down some of my questions, and so I would have a little chart across the front, and we’ll pop these in the show notes. But does this study require me to have my Bible open? Are the questions rooted in the text? Does this study account for a variety of learning styles. Is it accessible to the women I’m leading? Does it speak to a current need in our church? That’s what I was just talking about. Does it provide a teacher, leader, resource? Is it affordable? So you know what questions will be important to ask for for the group that you’re going to be studying with, but But ask those. Questions and go through and kind of vet the curriculum and the material. Your step yourself. Okay? A minute ago, I kind of alluded to the fact that we were going to talk about, like having the Bible study in the building of the church versus having a Bible study in a neighborhood. And I love a good neighborhood Bible study. So let’s talk about kind of the pros and cons of of what that looks

Melissa Kruger
like. Yeah, I think I mean, Courtney said earlier, one of the benefits of being in the local church, one is then everyone knows how to get to that local church. So if you’re inviting people you know from outside the church to come to it, it does provide just a familiarity, which always makes it a little bit easier. Always felt this with VBS as well. We would always invite all these kids from the neighborhood to VBS, and just the with the Hey, you get to leave your kids for three hours and go do whatever you want, moms, you know, this was this huge pull in and then, but just the act of knowing where to park, knowing how you know where you drop your kid off, all of that stuff can be a real barrier to someone coming to church on a Sunday morning. So sometimes Bible study and it just being a little less intense for a woman you know from your neighborhood, inviting her in that can be great. I will say I kind of still favor them at home, though, so I think there are really good reasons to do it at church. I was in a church where we rented the building, so it really wasn’t an option for us to have it at the church building during the week, and there was something I just deeply loved about having women in my living room. It did limit the size, but I liked that too. There was something really warm and refreshing about having people in your home and having those all around the city. Because I think there is one of the benefits, and I think one of the things we’ve lost in our world where we think of hospitality as Martha Stewart Living versus no, no, just come in my home and the meal is the word, and that’s what we’re going to eat together. But you see a little bit of my life, you know, when you’re in my home, oh, you know, her cups are not that clean. Her dog is her dog is a mess. Her dog is really a mess, and he needs a bath. And you learn all that about someone when you’re in their home. There’s something I do think that builds that community that you’re hoping to build in churches anyway, and you’re doing it over the word. So I do love that. It’s also, if you’re inviting neighbors, it’s really easy to have them. And what about you? What do you prefer?

Courtney Doctor
Well, I do. It’s so hard. So So I do like gathering in the local church for all the reasons that we said. So I started a rhythm at our local church where we would do fall and spring in the church and then summer in the neighborhoods. And one of the women came and she goes, Are you kicking us to the curb? And I was like, 100% I’m kicking you to the curb. So take this study, and I would give them the study that they should use. It was like a six week study and and go into your neighborhoods, because there is something about it. I think we are more evangelistic when we’re in our neighborhoods. We’re just willing to invite the people that live next door to come to our house, and they’re going to be more willing to come, but again, then they’re building relationships. So you also want to have some people from your church in that study, so that they’re building some of those relationships. But I’m telling you, the difference that it can make to have a faithful presence in your neighborhood over the course of time is tremendous. It is so beautiful. We have seen it. I’ve seen it play out in some friends’ lives in some incredible ways, where she just faithfully would, maybe once a year, offer a study and and maybe women would come, and maybe they wouldn’t, but then 20 years later, you know, they’re getting a diagnosis, or they’re going through something with their parents, or they’re they’re dealing with something, and who do they turn to? They turn to the person who they know will pray for them, and the person that they know might have something to offer, and so just being that faithful presence in your neighborhood is really important. So we’re not going to land like really hard on either of those, but we’re going to say there’s benefit to both. For sure.

Melissa Kruger
Can I ask a follow up question to that? How? Okay, we’ve noticed this. We teach how to teach the Bible class. We teach something together. I’m not quite sure what it is, but one thing we’ve noticed is that sometimes women want it just to be for their church. Yes. And so we both have always had a heart for No, no, no. Make your Bible study a place where a non Christian can come. So what are some ways, what needs to happen for that to be a place where you could bring your non Christian friend? This

Courtney Doctor
might be my favorite question of the day, because I think it’s so important. I think that if you are in any way, shape or form, in leader. In that women’s Bible study, whether it’s in your neighborhood or your local church, then the way you lead is so important and so normalize the fact, even if there are, even if you know, out of the five women in the room, they’re all walking with the Lord, they all know the word, you still talk as if there’s an unbeliever in the room, and you still say, and for those of you that might not believe this yet, or we want to understand this from what the Word of God has to say about it, that’s going to be our source of truth. Or things that they start thinking, Oh, this is a safe place to bring my unbelieving friend, because nobody up front is assuming that everybody here is a believer, and obviously we have to diminish the Christian ease, which is so hard because we just, it’s just the way we talk, right? It’s the air we breathe. And so it’s really hard to even be aware of the Christian ease language that we’re using. But just always envision, always envision that there is somebody who is really doubting, somebody who is a skeptic, somebody who does not know the Lord at all. Always picture that person in the room and just normalize it, because it’s going to, over time, become a safe place to invite, to invite unbelievers.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I think that. I think that’s actually just a good word about everything we do in the local church. Always think of it as a chance for to do apologetics. I mean, even for your own heart, when you’re the one teaching, sometimes you need to remind yourself, why do I believe what I believe? And so even the people that you’re like, No, no, no. Miss Judy’s been walking with Jesus for 20 years today, she might not really remember why she believes. And so as we study this book together, it’s always an apologetic for why should you believe? We all need to hear the gospel preached to our soul again and again and again. And so I think remembering that especially when you think, how would an unbeliever hear this will help you, you know, all of us to kind of make, make that. You know work. Let me ask this. Then, okay, if we’re gonna make sure it’s available to anyone. What do you think about

Speaker 1
homework? I love homework. Okay, so she I do. I love

Courtney Doctor
homework. It’s so important. It’s so important for so many reasons. So it’s important that we are spending time digging into the word by ourselves, that we are wrestling with it, that we are looking at it, that we are calling out to the Lord for His Spirit to enlighten the eyes of our hearts, as John Piper just said in his keynote, and and that we are doing that hard work, and then it’s important that we get together and we talk with others about what we’re seeing and what we’re learning and and watch the Spirit work among us, not just in us, but your homework, when you do Your homework, when you spend time in the text by yourself, everybody at your table, everybody in your Bible study, everybody in your small group, benefits. So I benefit when my friends do their homework and show up. I benefit a lot more from that than my friends that show up. Their pages are blank and they’re just talking off the top of their head, they haven’t done the work. They haven’t been in the text. Now, okay, let’s just say come to Bible study whether you’ve done your homework or not. But if you’re characterized by not doing your homework, then I would say you need to dig in. You need to be doing that work by yourself. And it’s not just for you. You’re not the end game of it. It’s it’s the group you’re going to grow together as you’re all studying the Word, but you’re

Melissa Kruger
gonna judge them a little bit, right? If they am a

Courtney Doctor
little judgy, I am a little judgy, but you know what? The Lord constantly humbles me? Guess what? Guess what? I showed up last week at Bible study in my Ephesians. In my Ephesians Bible study. I didn’t even look at it, but I listened to that chapter on my way. Yeah, no. I mean, we all have those weeks, right? We all have those times that we don’t do the homework. But I think that that rhythm is really important and and, you know, for the love of everything good, can we stop telling other women that because of the age and stage that they are, that they don’t need to do their homework? Just stop? Yeah, I when I had little, tons of little kids running around in diapers, I needed the Word of God more than I needed lunch. Can we just stop telling people that this agent stage, they don’t need to do their homework? That is not true. It’s not true. We need the word of God. So

Melissa Kruger
whatever age you are and whatever stage you are, it’s your Bible study time. It’s time to be in it.

Courtney Doctor
It is time to be there. That’s exactly and we actually all have something we can give up to make, to make room for

Melissa Kruger
it. And one thing that you were saying that just want to hit on, I really started changing how I think of. About it, I used to kind of think as of my quiet time as my time. It’s, you know, like Melissa time, and it was all about me, and something Courtney just said, I just want to, you know, highlight this actually, the way you love the people in your life the most is by studying God’s word and spending time in prayer so that you know it is literally putting your oxygen mount mask on first before you go out into the world. And so you doing that, just like she said, if I want to walk into my world and I want to be wise in my job, if I want to be a wise Mom, if I want to be a wise friend, if I want it, whatever I want to be. The foundation of wisdom is this book, and so I’m not sure. Sometimes you will read it and you will be like, I have no idea what this says or what this means, and I’m totally confused. Well. But then you get to Bible study, and it might like, oh, and something about that wrestling and the not knowing, and then the knowing is so satisfying. And so I just want to encourage you that time that you do homework, that time you spend in the word, it isn’t just about you. You might be in that passage, because in three days, you’re going to have a conversation with someone at the park, and you’re going to remember that passage that you were just in, and that is bread that you are giving to someone else. And so I think we have to think of this. It’s not selfish time. It’s soul satisfying. It’s like eating a meal. You do not think, Oh, I’m eating a meal and I’m really selfish. You think, oh, I have to eat it or else I will die. That is what is true about God’s word. You need to eat it or your soul will die. And so it don’t think of it as if I get to it, it has to be I’m going to get to it, and I’m going to come and then I’m actually going to out of what I’ve taken and I’m going to be able to feed others. And that’s, that’s a glorious thing.

Courtney Doctor
It is a glorious thing. And I was just thinking as you were talking, I’ll probably get a little emotional, but how much I benefit and how much I’ve grown because of the time you’ve spent in the Word, and that’s true of other friends of mine too. It’s Have any of you benefited from, you know, one of Jen’s studies, or one of Nancy’s studies, or one of Melissa’s studies? Well, you’re benefiting from their time in the Word, and the same is true for you. Others will benefit because you have spent time in the Word with the Lord. And that idea of bread, you know, Moses said it, and then Jesus said it. So Moses said, Man does not live by bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord, and then Jesus repeated it. You know, Man does not live by bread alone. But so what are they doing there? Why did they both say that? I mean, they’re making this comparison that it is so necessary for your life. And so if physical bread is necessary for physical life, then spiritual bread is necessary for spiritual life. And so if you want to be alive physically, you have to eat physically. If you want to be alive spiritually, you have to eat spiritually. And so we do this alone, and then we do it together, and we grow together. And so Bible study with others is, is you feasting together and you growing spiritually? You will be in the same way that you grow physically. You’ll grow stronger. You will be, I mean, Scripture talks about it. You’re not going to be tossed here and there, tossed with every wave of teaching. You’re going to grow up, you’re going to be established. You’re going to be rooted. I mean, these are all things that the Word gives us to say, like it’s important that we grow stronger. And the only way we’re going to do it, the only way we are going to do that is by feasting on the Word of God individually, and then together, and then we, we, we speak the Word of God to each other, yeah,

Melissa Kruger
as you’re saying that, I’m just thinking of like spiritual communion, you know, I mean, you know, like the bread and the wine, but this is the bread, yeah, this is what we take in, and we get to Feast ON together. And it really is such a privilege to get to do it with people in your local congregation. Okay, can I move us into practicals? I know that that was all so good, but, but

Courtney Doctor
okay on the plane Courtney,

Melissa Kruger
that’s actually mean, like, I kind of hate to go the practicals. This feels like, okay, practicals are so now let’s talk about icebreakers. Okay, you just had this wonderful communion, and now we’re gonna go. But I think when we actually get into Bible study sometimes, sometimes Bible study can become about icebreakers and prayer requests. And like the icebreaker just took 30 minutes. We have two minutes for Bible study, and now we’re going to do prayer requests for the next 30 minutes. So how do we should we do icebreakers? Do they belong? What do we think about them? Should we have them?

Courtney Doctor
So this is probably getting tossed to me, to humble me, because I was like, I. Hate icebreakers. And then years ago, I learned the value of them and the place of them. And so this idea that you want women to come into a conversation kind of gently, I had a woman who was helping me learn how to sort of lead women’s Bible studies way, way, way back in the day, and she was talking about the five levels of communication. And I don’t know if I’m going to get them right, but it was like, facts, ideas, I’m not doing this right, emotions, something. Yeah, we’ll put it in the show notes. And, but there are these levels of conversation and, and you can’t just jump into level four. People don’t feel comfortable with that. They like to be kind of stair stepped down. And so icebreaker questions tend to be it’s why there’s value in the you know, who said, and it’s right there in the text, you know, Jesus, those questions, because they get people talking. And so if we want to be discussing this, it’s good to sort of gently invite women into that conversation by asking something that anybody could answer something fun. But women are not good at following instructions. And so I will even say you cannot use more than three words in your answer. And you know, then you know, somebody is like, off talking for three minutes and and so raining people in Okay, what do you think?

Melissa Kruger
I think you have to ask something that can be answered in one word, that’s, that’s always my goal. And I actually tried to take icebreakers and relate them to what we’re going to be studying so for and, but they’re so fun, like, so if you’re gonna be talking about, like, the mercy of God or something, and you want to talk about things wrong, I might ask the question, if you got caught for Bible study and get the cookie, you know? And so I know that can happen, but so normally it will go fast. But I do think the benefit I had a friend, I used to my all my neighbors, to the Bible study I was in, and one of my friends who came, and to be honest, I didn’t think she would ever come. I was like, oh, and she was the one who came, and she looked at me one day and she goes, I’m never going to answer any questions. I’m never going to speak, but she would always do the icebreaker question, and it just allowed her to participate in a way she felt comfortable. So after she told me that, I was like, Oh, this is really important to have just so everyone says something, even if that’s all that they say. And so it also needs to be like, don’t ask. So, what sin are you struggling with? Like, I mean, that’s not where you start, okay, you know, like, start with something a little easy that people can people can do. Okay. What about prayer requests? How do we handle?

Courtney Doctor
Oh, no, I’m asking you that one, you see, she keeps tossing all the questions to me, but this one is coming back at you. So raise your hand if you have ever been in a group where prayer requests all of a sudden you were praying for somebody’s neighbors, aunts, cousins. Yes, yes. Yes. Okay, so what role we want to talk about? What role do prayer requests have in Bible study? What? Why is it important that we pray together and that we pray for each other, so with each other and for each other? And what are some ways, since we’re getting practical, what are some ways to keep it in that productive, helpful

Melissa Kruger
space. That’s right. Well, again, we’re quoting John Piper again. So again, if you didn’t hear him already, listen to him. But he just said, We need theology and prayer, theology and prayer, theology and prayer. So we need both of those things. So I’m gonna give just some practicals on this. One thing we used to do in Bible study. We actually had a clipboard, and we would pass it around, and we would say, put your prayer request here. And then at the end, we would take it up, and we like, is there anything major on here that someone needs prayer for right now? Because that, you know, if there’s a cancer diagnosis or something like that. You don’t want that to just be Oh yeah, you get the email with the prayer request, and you’re like, what on earth we should have prayed for it there. So we would do that. That was a really practical thing when we and then actually what we would do is take once a quarter and actually share our prayer request, and so that we would do a whole session just on prayer requests, because we thought it was important to do. And then we’d break up in small groups and pray. Small groups and pray for one another. But our rule, and certain Bible studies I was in was brief. Is it brief? Biblical and beneficial to keep it brief, to keep it biblical meaning, I need you to pray for my friend Courtney, who’s a real gossip. Is not, you know, a good way to go about prayer requests, you know, or whatever, like it shouldn’t be or, yeah, I was actually thinking more of a way to gossip through your prayer request. Is what often happens like, so, you know, Courtney’s just struggling, you know, or whatever. I mean, that’s not. Yours to share. So, I mean, keep it biblical and keep it brief and keep it beneficial for other people to hear. So that was something we would always say, and we said it to the whole group beforehand every week, just to remind them, you know, keep it, keep it within these balance. What

Courtney Doctor
about yours is, of course, alliterated. Mine is not but personal and current. So it needed to be about you, and it needed to be something current, and we would then, a lot of times, just stop and pray right then, because a lot of times that’s really necessary when somebody shares something that is personal and current, that we are going to need to stop and pray right then, but then follow up. So so write them down, and then the next week, follow up on those so that everybody is is being reminded and they’re seeing the Lord work. So don’t neglect to thank God for his answers. Don’t neglect to praise him when that answer comes because it’s not just an exercise we go through in order to share what’s on our hearts. It’s not just a counseling session. It is. It is requesting from the living God his action for our benefit, for our good, and then to remember to praise Him and to thank him. So the follow up, I think, is a huge part of discipleship, that we’re actually expecting the Lord to answer, and that his answer can come in three main ways. It can be yes, it can be No, and it can be not now, and that all of those are an answer. I think a lot of times when the answer is no, we think it’s not an answer but, but even discipling people through a no answer to a prayer request is is helpful. It’s helped me, as people have counseled me through answers that have been that have been no. Well, okay, as we’re kind of wrapping this up without a clock in the front. So that’s been I’m pretty impressed that we’re staying on time. What book of the Bible could you study over and over without ever getting tired of it?

Melissa Kruger
This is a hard question. I think I have to say I think it’s John. I love, I love the book of John. I just love how it’s laid out, the signs, the wonders that you might believe. And so it’s just the one that I always get back to the I am statements, obviously, from last time, what about you?

Courtney Doctor
I was just as you were talking. I was remembering, I think it was Gordon Fee that said that if he could study any two books of the Bible for the rest of his life, he would study, I’m not, I’m going to go back and give mine. But I just thought this was a great answer. He said he would study Galatians to understand what the gospel is, and he would under he would study Philemon to understand what the gospel does, what it looks like lived out. And I thought that was really beautiful. Um, I it would probably be Romans. I just it’s the depths. You know, the depths, oh, the depths of the riches and the mercy and the knowledge and the wisdom. It’s not mercy is not in there. Sorry, I botched it, but knowledge and wisdom of God. I mean,

Melissa Kruger
sure, you should know it better. I should know it better because she has, she has a Bible study if you want another life based study. That’s really good. She has Romans, which you should get and and it’s just great because it goes through it how many weeks?

Courtney Doctor
I think it’s nine. I think it’s nine, but, yeah, I know it’s been, it’s been a minute, but, yeah. But the privilege of writing that and diving into that book, but keeping it kind of at a high level of understanding what Paul was doing that he it’s actually a missions mobilization letter that he’s like, okay, church in Rome. Y’all need to understand what the gospel is, and you need to understand what the gospel does. And then you need to join me on the in the mission of the proclamation of this gospel to the ends of the earth. And it just changed. It just changed the way I read that glorious book. And then you have Romans eight in the middle, which, you know, we could spend our whole life just soaking in the truths, kind of what, what John Piper was just saying in this keynote, for the fifth time, if you guys are listening to this, listen to the keynote. But when he talked about, yeah, I mean, just that. It just, it just blows your mind. It just, it just to soak in those truths for for so long. Well, thank you so much for joining us for our first ever live recording. Melissa actually reminded me the other day she goes, you know, we can’t stop and like, talk about what questions we want to ask in the middle of it, because there’s going to be people in the room. And I was like, Oh, you’re right. So first ever live recording of the deep dish. We hope you have enjoyed it, and we will see you next time. Thank you.