Does My Son Know You?

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Collin Hansen
Everything just hits you differently as a parent. As a parent, you just can’t think of yourself first. Any longer your whole outlook changes, you shift priorities to ensuring a future for your children. So what happens when you get diagnosed in April 2021, at age 33, with a rare form of cancer, so rare, in fact, that the odds of contracting it are 25 million to one. What happens when the doctors can’t tell you if you have five months or five years to live and what happens with your son, born at the end of March 2020, at the outset of a global pandemic? That’s the story of Jonathan sharks, who has covered basketball for the ringer since 2016. As an end as a host on the ringer NBA show, he loves Jesus and Dallas in that order. And he wrote about cancer, His Son and His Church in a remarkable essay for the ringer called, does my son know you?

Collin Hansen
I’ve never read anything like it in mainstream media, let alone sports media. And I especially took notice when the ringers founder Bill Simmons, commended the essay. And Jonathan concludes this way, quote, I have already told some of my friends, when I see you in heaven, there’s only one thing I’m going to ask. Were you good to my son? And my wife? Were you there for them? Does my son know you? Jonathan joins me on gospel home to discuss basketball, his journalistic career, and the reception to his memorable essay. Jonathan, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me on. Well, John, let’s just start with the obvious here. What’s the what’s the latest with your health?

Jonathan Tjarks
Um, it’s not good. I have terminal cancer, the doctors don’t have a ton of faith and they’re not too optimistic. But it’s um, you know, doctors only know so much or so even admit themselves, but it’s, yeah, it’s not great.

Collin Hansen
Well, again, I think a lot of people certainly learned about your situation your illness from the SN I know are praying for you and, and trusting the Lord to do His will in your life. And again, thanks for taking the time to do this. Now. In an earlier life i i was that person who waited on every bombshell report from Peter Gammons and Chris Mortensen and set aside an hour each week at least an hour each week three the sports guy mailbag by Bill Simmons. But after journalism at school, I headed toward ministry, you took the path to sports media. Tell us a little bit about what that what that path look like.

Jonathan Tjarks
I worked in since like high school, the school paper, college paper, all that stuff. And then for me what it really was because I played basketball my whole life. Also, it was kind of combining those two passions into one thing. I figured, oh, I probably played more bat played more sports and most guys covering it. I think, conversely, pi written more than most of the guys who play it. Let me combine those two interests that worked out I was able to create a career for myself with

Collin Hansen
it. Was it a? I mean, it was it was a kind of a surprise, or did everything unfold? neatly? I mean, I got a lot of journalism students who come in, they want to know, and I say, it’s the best of times, worst of times, I find where there’s, there’s more jobs, I think, kind of all over the place, and you can make of it what you want. But there’s no clear path. What was was your was your path? Clear?

Jonathan Tjarks
Not at all. It’s a tough industry, for sure. And it’s always changing. So it’s hard to, as you said, it’s hard to have a path because media is always changing. I mean, like my company is now primarily a podcast company, the regular podcast, and in really, I graduated college 2009 I think podcasts had barely even existed back then. Maybe they had just started. And now that’s like, the primary way I make my living, you know, there’s no set path. I several times almost got a journalism, I had a day job for a lot of my 20s doing various different things to make a living. Really, I feel like it was the hand of God in my life that really allowed me to have this as a career. I remember. That’s the advice I always give people is ultimately like, wherever God will have you. However, God uses you this the best, obviously. And I remember praying at some point along the rails like I’d love to do this as a career. And if I do this as a career, I’ve promised to point back to you if I’ve given a platform and it worked out way more than I ever thought was possible. That’s for sure.

Collin Hansen
You seem to have a strong relationship with your with your founder, boss, Bill Simmons. Tell us a little bit about that. Again, I’ve been reading Phil for I mean, it feels like 20 years, but it’s gotta be 20 years now.

Jonathan Tjarks
Oh, I mean, yeah, those great guy. You know a lot of it. He’s just you know, he likes to put people on his employees on his show. So a lot of it’s just being on the show talking about basketball, but I mean, he’s, he’s an awesome boss, I certainly can’t complain

Collin Hansen
those a little bit about what you especially love about basketball I, I consider you the maestro of matchups. That seems to be your thing, the maestro of matchups, you can add that to your Twitter bio, if you want. I mean, really, you’ve specialized, at least in how I understand your reading, and how players fit together on the court based on analytics. So just tell us a little bit about your love for basketball?

Jonathan Tjarks
Oh, sure. I mean, I just grew up playing it. You know, I think most like with most sports, I think it’s it, it has to start with playing I think more often more often than not anyways, just you grow up as a little kid playing, you play all the time, and you just kind of, kind of through osmosis. You learn about what’s going on. I think what I think what’s so cool about basketball, compared to most sports, I think it’s like the perfect blend of the individual sport, and the team sport. So obviously, on one end, you have like golf and tennis, that’s just an individual. opposite end of like football 53. Guys, baseball, 25, guys, basketball is only 12.

Jonathan Tjarks
And you only play like seven usually. So it’s like, the star is the most important player, but there are still the team, and how you kind of balanced that dynamic of individual success versus team success. I just find it so fascinating. It’s like basketball, you’re always put on a spot like on a team you’re on. Because you’re always having to balance how do I maximize my individual success versus what’s the best for the team? You know, do I want to be quote unquote, selfish? Do I look out for myself? Or my sacrifice? And there’s there’s no easy answer for these questions. And it’s always changing, teams always change roles always change. I just find that dynamic, so fascinating.

Collin Hansen
Well, at the risk of turning it in a strange direction, that’s a little bit like what running a website is like, journalistically. I mean, it’s about individuals, because you’ve got to have the folks who can really do the work, who can host the podcast, who can write the article, you got to have the behind the scenes people as well. But also, if you don’t have a bunch of people who fit well together, it doesn’t, it doesn’t work. It’s just one guy’s Twitter account. In that case, what’s what’s sort of just the work culture like for the ringer,

Jonathan Tjarks
I think it’s changed a lot with the pandemic. But we don’t used to do a lot more in person collaboration, like so the company is based in LA, and I’m based in Dallas, and I would fly out there a lot. Since the pandemic, we didn’t really haven’t really done much of that. So it’s way more kind of slack group chat, video chat, I would say with the ringer, one thing I really enjoy about it, one thing they do a very good job of, is just kind of empowering. Like they trust. They’re very big on like trust and empowering somebody. Okay, if we hire you, we believe in you. And we want the best version of yourself, like on our product, because that’s going to be better for everyone. So we want to encourage you to find your own lane. A good example of that is like coworker of mine and Claire McNair. She I don’t know how much if you know much about her, but like she were really popular book about Jeopardy last year, and then she broke the story about the new Jeopardy.

Jonathan Tjarks
No controversy solid over. Yeah. And she essentially like created her own job of like, I’m going to cover Jeopardy, like we cover sports. And like who would have thought of that. And now she’s, it’s like, she’s the biggest Jeopardy writer in the world. And that that’s just because she was passionate about it, she’s able to like, give that information to people in a compelling way. So we’re like, I might I don’t personally watch Jeopardy. But I might read Claire write about Jeopardy, because interesting. I think that’s kind of like the ethos of the size of the company is like, if we hire you, and you find something interesting, let’s find a way to get that to people.

Jonathan Tjarks
Because if you find it interesting, other folks might find it interesting. Conversely, if you don’t find it interesting, no one else is either. And that’s what happens in media a lot, too, is sometimes people, you kind of get stuck at a job and you lose your passion for it. And there’s a there’s one thing that’s obvious is that when someone’s covering a sport, or a team or a subject, and they’re just kind of mailing it in, and they don’t care about it, like you can tell as a reader or a listener, and if they don’t care about it, then certainly your audience ain’t gonna care about it either.

Collin Hansen
Yeah. Well, Bill, Bill Simmons is a is a true pioneer in media. There’s just there’s no doubt about that. Because I think he, I mean, he invented multiple genres. I mean, I’m one of those people I don’t, I don’t care about sports. I don’t care about Boston sports, I’m saying, but for that time period, not only does he innovate so much of what we see. And it continued to innovate, especially with podcasts and how successful he’s been more successful on that than any thing else.

Collin Hansen
But it is so interesting that what we’ve learned to watch, it’s kind of like the old fox broadcasts of Wrigley Field or Fenway Park, where they realized that the crowd was actually more interesting than what was on the field that like watching Bill be a fan of his teams is more interesting than the team’s in some way, especially during that time period at the beginning of the Pats dynasty, and then with the Red Sox not having a won a World Series, the, you know, the baby curse, and Babe Ruth curse and all that kind of stuff. And so, I mean, I can see how that ethos has played out, in all those different ways through, you know, through your company, and over time. And I mean, maybe that I guess that maybe that explains a little bit. But, I mean, why did the ringer let you publish this particular essay? Certainly, it’s something that would have been loved. And everybody I mean, every would have expected it at the gospel coalition. It would not have expected it with the ringer.

Jonathan Tjarks
yeah, I mean, I think kind of what we were saying is they published it because I wanted to write it. And they were like, Okay, if you’re passionate about this, and I think it got, they got a pretty big response. I think it worked out for them. And, yeah, just like if you’re passionate about it, and you can present it in a compelling way, we’ll just publish it and figure the rest out from there as kind of their attitude. Yeah, I’m very grateful, obviously, I think because of the different obviously, it’s not a Christian themed website. So I was able to reach a different kind of audience than a Christian audience. And so I think I’m very grateful for that. And that’s been like one of the few. One of the right will constellations or bright spots about this whole experience for me is the ability to talk about God in a very different setting. And to use this story to kind of, you know, point people back to God is ultimately the hope.

Collin Hansen
Most of my work and including in this podcast concerns how to, how to introduce people to Jesus, how to talk to them about Jesus in ways that they’ll connect with. And one of the things I’ve I mean, I’ll probably use your essay in my, in my class on apologetics next time I teach it, because, well, well, one of the things I’ve noticed is that people can deflect so many different things in this culture as if it has no effect on them, but not suffering. And there’s and also the dynamics of parenting. I mean, again, reading bill all these years, Bill has talked a lot, especially when his kids were young, about parenting and and just sort of, no matter how you might, no matter what your religious beliefs might be, there’s still a common grace of love for your kids. And so you brought those brought those two things together. Now, what’s the feedback been that you’ve received? And I’d say, especially from people who, who don’t claim any faith in Jesus, oh, you know,

Jonathan Tjarks
it’s hard to say I try to stay out. It’s like, I found personally, like, I’m not really on social media anymore, I found to be more hurtful than helpful in my line of work. So I mean, like, it’s a little removed. I know. I get emails and stuff. And it’s funny. Sometimes a lot of people will say stuff like, Well, I’m not religious, but they love to say that. I’m not religious. I’m not a religious person, myself, per se, you know? So yeah, it’s like, it’s kind of, and that’s why I don’t I don’t really have a great answer for I guess, for me, I wasn’t when I was growing up, either. But I never really looked at it like that. But I know, there’s a very much a very common frame in our societies like, oh, there’s religious people. And there’s me, and there’s everyone else. And I don’t really know about that world. So there’s a lot of that, I think, yeah, I think as you kind of said to, it’s like, there is something like universal, especially once you have kids. That’s kind of like, you know, it’s a cliche, but it’s true. You have kids,

Collin Hansen
yes. Three kids. Yeah. Seven, four and nine months.

Jonathan Tjarks
Oh, well, there you go. Yeah, there’s something it’s true, right? It does change your life does change your perspective. It does. Yeah, force you to be outside yourself a little bit and kind of give yourself a different kind of more future oriented view. And so I think, yeah, a lot of people responded to that. And it’s, it’s one thing like, you know, it’s one thing you don’t want to think about that was like, the hardest part for me about writing about all this stuff is just kind of having to acknowledge it. It’s like, if you don’t, sometimes you don’t put it down. It’s like, oh, well, but once you put it on paper and put it out there, it’s like, no, this is real. This is really happening. Like there’s no getting around it. But I think it’s all that to say like, Yeah, I think it’s like okay, how do I best plan for my kids future take care of my kids and like what is the best way to set them up for success?

Collin Hansen
One of the things I also love to read about and write about and teach about is just community. So you had your essay touches on just the most vulnerable All aspects of suffering, as well as of community and why I mean, this one thing stood out to me, Why can’t our friends be our family? Like we see on the on the sitcoms? Why doesn’t it just work out like on cheers or friends or whatever is more current?

Jonathan Tjarks
Yeah, I think I think structure is important. I think there needs to be some kind of structure. It’s just too, there’s too much going on. In our in our world. There’s too much happening. People are always, you know, what happens is like we LSA in the church, you know, see, these are seasons of life. Next year, that expression,

Collin Hansen
we’ve, we published a book called season. Hey, there you go. Waiting. Yeah,

Jonathan Tjarks
yeah. And so like, a lot of times what happens? I think, not my experience, I don’t think is anything unusual on that. It’s like you have, I have some friends I still hang out with from when I was a kid. But then it’s just like things change. People move, they get promotions, they get families, they get busy. And it’s like, if they’re not that structure, without that community aspect, it’s just very easy, especially in our culture to just kind of isolate. And as you get older, people just kind of drift apart. And there’s, I think what it is, is like there’s nothing our culture has nothing, bring people back together, right? Everything, it’s it’s always driving you apart, right? There’s always things oh, this person said this on social media, we can’t be friends anymore. Whatever, right? There’s a million things driving people apart, and there’s nothing bringing us together. And I think that’s what like the church community does. And I think, you know, bigger than that, even I know, for me, I think a lot of people talk about this, I certainly felt that myself is after you have high school and you have college.

Jonathan Tjarks
And in those settings, like you’re part of this bigger network of people, I your place somewhere like, Oh, I’m a sophomore at Texas, I’m in this frat, I’m in this student organization, I have a place. I’m part of something and people know me through being part of this thing. But then after college, it just kind of drifts away and you have a job. But that’s a small part of it, right? And it’s like, they’re not you’re not part of the network, you’re not part of something bigger than yourself. And that’s what the church can provide. It’s like, okay, now I’m part of this church. I’ve been here for x years, I know all these people. And people come people go, but there’s this broader network of people who are involved in my life, who will notice if I’m gone, right, like, get fired for you lose your job. And it’s like, well, you’re not coming to work anymore. And then who’s keeping track of you who’s noticing when you’re gone, who’s noticing, who’s picking you up? It’s very easy to slip through the cracks. And you see that a lot in our society is love slipping through the cracks.

Collin Hansen
No, I, I could also probably hand out your your essay in church membership. You know, in my church, we we put a lot of emphasis on these on these life groups. And one of the things I’ve noticed in these life groups is that it helps you because they’re not people that you necessarily would choose by affinity to be your friends. It’s not because you have a bunch of things in common, it’s that you have Jesus in common and that you have that church in common. And then you become close. Because he’s been time together, talking about those things and praying about those things. Tell me a little bit more about how you see, you know, your life group through church as being different from what most people experience without it in this world.

Jonathan Tjarks
I remember like what really stood out to me, so I became a Christian, probably like 25 Somewhere there. And then like, at my first church, my sort of slot now and there’s life groups, and all this stuff. I just had this sense, at some point along the way after I’d been kind of plugged in for a while. And I was just like, oh, man, this will be part of my life forever. If I want it to be like, Oh, if I if I do end up moving for work, well, I’m gonna go plug myself into a church wherever I end up. Okay? There will always be these people in my life now, even if it’s not these people necessarily today, but it’s like, oh, this is something I can always plug into. And that was something that was not available to me before. I mean, I think for me like being a young guy moving around laughter college the closest thing I had to that was like pickup basketball was okay if I join and if I will go to a new city whilst my playing pickup basketball. Meet people that way, but that’s no it’s very limiting certain type of person. You got to be pretty good shape physically, obviously to do that. And there’s a there’s a lifespan on that. And it’s just like, yeah, like, the world is a really lonely place. Our society is a very, very lonely place. Some time, a lot of times, I just remember thinking, Oh, this, this what this is right here, this weekly gathering this chance to pray for each other, love on each other. It’s like, wow, this can be part of my life forever. I can always have this and it was like, wow, that was really powerful for me.

Collin Hansen
Explain what you mean by relational insurance?

Jonathan Tjarks
Okay, yeah. So I talked about that in the piece. So kind of the basic gist of it was when you get the kind of diagnosis I received, the doctors are, you know, they want to pull you Okay? Well, obviously, like your medical insurance, right? That becomes very important. Okay, medical insurance? How are you going to pay for all this treatment? Life insurance? Well, if you’re not going to how are you going to support your family after you’re gone? Like what kind of insurance do you have, and the thing that really struck me was okay, that’s important, but it’s not as important as the relational hole that your absence would leave in your family. And I talked about that in the piece, because so I’ve kind of been on both ends of it. Now. Growing up when I was a kid, my father had Parkinson’s, and he was not around much for me growing up because he was so sick all the time. And then I remember what really stood out to me looking back on it especially, was man, there were just not a lot of people in my life growing up, because my dad was sick all the time.

Jonathan Tjarks
There was just, he wasn’t working. He wasn’t in a church. People just kind of we talked earlier, like, oh, friends, like friend just kind of melt away after a while without that like common bond. And like all my dad’s friends, they’re people he had met, he was a big tennis player, he loves sports. He had met this, these people like hiking, swimming, playing tennis, and as you get sicker and sicker, these people kind of drift away, like, do I mean I, no one like blame anyone or anything, but I just Just have a go. It’s just how it is. And then like, there’s fewer and fewer people in our lives in my life and my mom’s life, just that that hole is bigger and bigger. And that’s kind of the idea of like relational insurance.

Jonathan Tjarks
I was like, Okay, I want there to be men in my son’s life as I as he gets older, if I’m not going to be around, like, okay, how can I give him relational insurance? How can I set it up as best I can to have people in his life when he’s older? And the answer for me was church, church community plugging in. And as best I can, kind of, like we talked about the top of my piece is like, Okay, I have these friends at church. Well, that’s great. Mom, we want to be there for you and your family. Okay, okay. Like, that’s great. Like, I want you to be there for my family. This is why it’s important to me like, this is what I’m going to ask of you is like I’m leaving these people basically in your care, because they’re not going to necessarily be in my care forever. At this point, I have to look forward a bit and say, Okay, how can I give my wife and my son relational insurance? And the answer is plugging into church as much as possible.

Collin Hansen
Yeah. Well, now you you acknowledge that Camus is part of why I also think the, the piece was, so it just connected with me and connected to so many other people is that it was very powerful, vulnerable, encouraging and hopeful, in some ways. Just real. And you acknowledge that cancer hasn’t brought you closer to God? Not in any kind of way that you can identify or feel? Have you felt pressure that it should? Or at least it’s hoped that it would?

Jonathan Tjarks
Yeah, I think it’s, um, it’s one of those things like, I know, the opportunity is available for that, and that would be the best outcome from it. And it’s like I have something I’m trying to work towards for sure. It’s like getting better at that and spending more time I’m actually like, on an indefinitely from work right now. And then it’s like, well, that should now have less excuse right? There’s, there’s no reason for me not to have a good quiet time. Think there’s just it’s just hard. There’s a lot of like unresolved feelings. It’s hard because it’s like ultimately, it’s hard to accept right? It’s very easy to accept from God’s will for your life is to be a nationally renowned sports writer. Well, that’s cool. Like that’s my will for my life.

Jonathan Tjarks
So I’m glad when that happens Oh, God’s will for my life is to have his wife in the sun and to have a house and have a career it’s like that’s very easy to accept obviously. But hey, when God’s will for your life is to have terminal cancer it’s it’s harder to accept it’s like a very it’s a very kind of puts you on a smile a little bit to like, Okay, well, what do you really believe is good at this true and is good about the world and what do you like? Yeah, like it’s easy to believe when things are going well, but when things Are you know, kind of the book of Job and all that, right? I think for me, like, what’s been most helpful is kind of I would say, like, you know what they says, and like, First John talks about, the love of God is manifested in each other, like, we know God’s love, because we love each other can’t You can’t love God who you haven’t seen if you don’t love your brother, who you do see. So for me, that’s been like the most encouraging part in terms of my relationship with God is just the way God has loved me through other people. Throughout the situation, I would say probably,

Collin Hansen
yeah, what do you I mean, this is one of those. It’s a big question. I don’t expect necessarily some sort of big answer. But it’s what do you want Christians mean, so many people who read that piece? I mean, he got millions of followers from his Bill Simmons on social media, who are checking that out, who would not claim to be believers in Christ. But if you’re talking to Christians, what would you want Christians to learn about God and His Church from, from your life and work,

Jonathan Tjarks
you just got to plug in, like, you’ve got to make it a priority in your life. And I think, you know, for me, being a convert is a little easier in that sense of pain, obviously, the Convert has energy, right? Like, it’s like, okay, this has to be a priority. I think a lot of times, it’s very easy for church to be like, Oh, it’s something I should do. It’s on my list of things I should do. I’ll go when I can. I’ll do what I can for it. And just like a slowly as time goes on, it just like knocks down the priority list. And that’s something with community especially, like, for me and my wife, that was always like, the most important thing is like, we’re gonna commit to doing this once a week, twice a week, no matter what, this is the most important thing, being part of this church. And I think if you’re not part of that kind of church community, especially in our society, it’s just like, it just gonna kind of go away after time.

Jonathan Tjarks
If there’s not a strong enough bond, it’s gonna get broken apart. I think that, for me is like, the most important thing is just to prioritize. And it’s hard, right? Like, it’s hard. Some weeks, especially when you have kids, you’re tired, kids, or they don’t want to do it, you know, it’s like, it’s very easy quickly for it to go from I’m going every week. I go when I can, I’m actually having nicely with friends all the time. And the next thing you know, you haven’t seen him in four or five months. And they’re like, not even really in churches anymore. It’s it happens that quickly if you don’t prioritize it. And I mean, that obviously goes with like, quiet time with God too. And that’s something I need to get better on myself personally. But like that is the thing is like, what? And ultimately it’s like, what do you prioritize in your life, and right, actions speak louder than words. And you might, I’m a Christian, and I’ll believe all this stuff. And I say all these things, and that’s great. But ultimately, your heart is your actions. And that’s really tells the tail and it’s like, and for me, I know, it’s like, I know, for me, if I wouldn’t have done all these things before I got sick. I don’t know where my life would be right now. I don’t know where my family would be right now.

Jonathan Tjarks
And it’s like, and that’s the thing too, is you just never know some relational insurance like you just never know what’s how your life was gonna go at a certain way. And you have to set up guardrails, not just for yourself, but for your family. That’s like in case something happens to you, because you just never know when people like I really I’m like, for as awful as this has been, it’s like, I’m lucky in the sense that at least I was given for warning, right? People die all the time. You know, car accidents, a million things can happen. You know, James, like, you never know what God’s gonna have for you, or what your how many days you’ve been numbered, right? You just never know. And you can’t assume

Collin Hansen
no, no, no, you certainly cannot assume at all. I mean, that’s you bring together so many different themes here. One of the things I’ve written about and in a book called rediscover church is my experience working with people in churches and in life groups, and I just say, look, you’re gonna get everything you want out of this group, if you just to show up and ask how you can help. There’s really nothing more complicated than that. I mean, and that’s the relational insurance is that if you if you just show up, and you ask how you can help everything in terms of your relationship with God, friendships, preparing even for the worst, like you’re experiencing it’ll all follow but if you don’t do that, if you don’t show up and you’re not looking to other people and how to help them nothing else is gonna matter.

Jonathan Tjarks
Yeah, that’s that’s the amazing thing. That’s the I think the way God moves in our life so much can we talked about earlier is like, bring people together who you nest nest not necessarily would normally do that. And that’s something for me He I think, is really helped me just in my job as a writer is being in Life Group is learning how to build relationships and connect with people whom you might not otherwise do that. And that’s so much of a to write, like just talks about, you know, King Day, but he says, God doesn’t see the things everyone else sees. He sees the heart. And like in your own heart and your own life, you might pursue people for really, any mothballed time is like, you might think these people be great friends like, these are the people we want to hang out with.

Jonathan Tjarks
And so often it’s not, it’s like, because he that you don’t know who they really got, you don’t see their heart, God sees their heart, and God can bring people into your life who you never would have thought twice about who you would have completely overlooked and totally changed your life and how you look at things. Because God just sees things differently than the way people see things. And God, when you you, when you like plug into church, and you meet different people in church, it’s like, you just can be blessed in ways you’ve never imagined by people who never would suspect otherwise. Do that. Because you’re God’s seeing them seeing things in them who you might not either, you would never see. And conversely God seeing things in you, that you you would never think about yourself and putting you in positions you would never otherwise do.

Collin Hansen
Do you think Jonathan much about what situation you’d be in now, if you had not come to faith in Jesus, there was a friend of God, he said, I’d interviewed here before on gospel bound name Lyman stone, in talks about how as Christians, we need to be more open about the benefits of following Christ. And not and we know ultimately, it’s an eternal situation. And we don’t convert some sort of like, you know, because of the great discounts we get on things. But at the same time, you didn’t get this terrible disease, because you’re a Christian. You know, sometimes there’s persecution because of what we believe as Christians.

Collin Hansen
And okay, that’s understandable, Blake, with all those people who writes you saying, I’m not religious, but I’m sure it’s because they can identify this didn’t happen to you, because of you being a Christian, it happened because we live in a fallen world. And so I’m just wondering, do you ever think about where would I be right now? I mean, you didn’t just say your career was still going great. And all that kind of stuff? Where would you be if you didn’t know Christ?

Jonathan Tjarks
Well, I mean, yes, I have, I do think about that. Sometimes. It’s, it’s scared. I mean, like, the, the practical level of it is, you know, it’s like, I still have friends from growing up, who I still keep in touch with, but second man, you’d be putting so many eggs into such few baskets, like in terms of support, if man, if I was depending on my, like two friends from high school, to like, you know, the people, as a man, that was wouldn’t be enough, I wouldn’t be able to get through this or as best I can. And then obviously, there’s the bigger stuff too, is like, man, it’s, it’s very, when you’re faced with your own mortality, when the doctors tell you, you have months to live, and it’s like, Man, I’m glad I have hope and something more than just these months. I’m glad there’s something beyond what I’m looking at.

Jonathan Tjarks
And then ultimately, right, gosh, if I didn’t have this faith in something beyond myself, and where would I be going? You know, like, ultimately, that’s where that’s the ultimate question for any of us. And I’m like, Man, I’m just so grateful that God, you know, I’ve often wonder about that. Because, like, I I’m very lucky to sense that not many people become Christians after college to be 2425. And God moving in my life in such a direct way to make me a Christian like, man. It’s weird sometimes, like, what was God’s plan for my life? And so it’s how you look back on it like, Whoa, man, that’s not why I thought it was going as for sure.

Collin Hansen
Well, I think in a lot of ways, Jonathan, that that what I connected with in Bill Simmons writing was somebody I’m not Gen X, I’m kind of the eldest millennial type there, but but I felt like he captured the mood of that generation of Gen X, those dynamics there. But a lot of what you pulled together in that essay, and just what you’re talking about here is very distinctive to what it’s like to be a millennial to be to be to make it in your job in a in a transformed Atmos, you know, landscape, vocational landscape to be, be trying to make it as a young person in a large city, trying to piece together a network of friendships, but ultimately, experiencing that this way of life that we’ve patterned, makes a lot of sense when you’re a student, but it’s not there when you graduate, and so no surprise that so many in if I might say in our generation have lost their way And wouldn’t know what to do in your situation because they’d become so disconnected from patterns of life that they took for granted, or didn’t even know about. So I guess that’s something I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that. That’s another thing that just stood out to me of how you brought together so many of those different themes that I think millennials especially, would identify with.

Jonathan Tjarks
Yeah, I think all kind of what you’re talking about is along the lines of like, Oh, what is like the takeaways for the church? And I think it’s like, Hey, it’s okay to be explicitly countercultural, and not and not countercultural in the sense that I’m not going to vote for everyone else’s voting for like, that’s not really countercultural, like countercultural is saying, like, this way of life we’ve been given that our society has is broken and not working, and we’re offering something else. Like, I’m not, we’re not offering a watered down version of what you can already get in the world. Like, that’s never going to work. That’s pointless.

Jonathan Tjarks
It’s like, No, I believe in these firm truths. And I believe these truths can impact will change my I seen it change my life in these ways. And I’m going to live this life. And I’m not going to go with the current go with the tide. And it was like, yes, like, it’s very, it’s easy, in a sense to be, quote, unquote, counterculture, on social media, but it’s like the countercultural thing is to turn off social media and live a real life with real people. And that’s what is going to a last in our modern society. That’s what’s gonna last as the church is those connections and be, that’s what’s appealing to people. Like, if you’re offering them a watered down thing of what they already had, it was watered down, right? Like, I’m offering you something different. And this different thing, maybe it is for you, maybe it isn’t, but it is different.

Jonathan Tjarks
And I believe this is the better way. And I think I would say that’s probably to kind of, I think in the church, it’s so easy to get caught up and like, oh, I want to be relevant to the culture. I want to be connected to the culture, but it’s like, I’ve lived in the culture, the culture sucks. Like, it’s not something, whatever, man, it doesn’t matter. So I that I was, I would say that too. It’s just like, Okay, what do we really believe? What is different about the way I live compared to the people who aren’t in the church? And if there’s not a great answer for that, then you’re not really doing enough. Like you’re not. If your life isn’t different than your friends lives who aren’t believers, then what’s really going on? Where’s the fruit? You know, where’s the fruit? Like, there’s such good fruit. It’s right there for you. We’re not You’re not You’re not being asked to do like, just show up at church man and talk to people. That’s all you got.

Collin Hansen
Even even a bunch of millennials we can do this. Yeah, not. Yeah. Jonathan not watered down, but the water of life. It’ll never be thirsty, or will never be thirsty again. Exactly what Jesus tells the woman at the well, beautiful there. Well, I have a document with Jonathan sharks from the ringer. I got mine as sad as my son. No, you I got a final three for Jonathan here. The first is how do you find calm Jonathan in the storm?

Jonathan Tjarks
Whoo. God, I wish I had a better answer for you. Well, honestly, it’s been it’s been a tough season. I think he is the word is like this. Okay. A lot of times, like, it’s really hard to know, with quiet time when with God. It’s such a traumatic emotional experience. But it’s like, okay, I can read this. I can be part of something that goes back 1000s of years, I can put myself in the shoes of these people writing these letters and reading these letters. And just like a kind of centers you wouldn’t have okay, this is something bigger than myself and my story. Like I’ve got to be part of something. I found that to be hurtful.

Collin Hansen
Amen. Where do you find good news today? As a journalist?

Jonathan Tjarks
Okay, my answer to that is turning off the news. Yeah, that’s a whole different. I really, I really something I have found. In my experience. I think the news is often designed to leave you anxious and unsure of yourself and stressed out. And it’s designed to give you to more information than you can use. Like I remember I got when the whole war started. And I’m like, reading all this stuff every day. I’m getting in cycle what difference for me in Dallas, knowing about tank movements in Ukraine, honestly, and it’s just freaking me out and getting me and what I found is the news a lot of times like the news, it’s very hard to love your brother when you’re reading about the worst things they do all the time and you just find yourself hating them. And it’s like this is not helpful. I would say the good news is like breathe in News. is last, like you probably need like once a week of news talk maybe once a month?

Collin Hansen
Well, there’s a, you know, it’s interesting, Jonathan, I won’t friend any of my physical neighbors on social media, because I don’t want to know what they think. Because I actually want to be able to love them. Right? And you know, and alternatively, I want them to know, I’m a Christian, based on what I talked to them about, and how I treat them. Not because they know my job, or because they find my podcast with Jonathan sharks, or something like that. I just mean that you couldn’t agree more. That’s a, you’re hitting on just about every major theme of this podcast for the last, you know, two years. So thank you for that.

Jonathan Tjarks
Great months.

Collin Hansen
I appreciate it up. What’s the last great book you’ve read? Jonathan?

Jonathan Tjarks
Oh, that’s a good one. Um, the last great book I read. I would say the book I’ve really enjoyed the most Lonesome Dove. Oh, okay. I would say that is the great American novel. People I saying I gotta write the great American novel. It’s, it’s already been written.

Collin Hansen
I’m sorry. It’s already done. And it’s not. It’s like,

Jonathan Tjarks
Yeah, I mean, it’s everything. Like Lonesome Dove is just like, it’s the one book Wow, it’s I know, it’s really big, but it’s actually worth it. And it’s Scott. It’s just got a life, man. There’s so much. I’m not sure if he’s a Christian or not the author, but there’s a ton of Christian stuff in there. There’s a ton of things where you can see redemption, forgiveness, everything. It’s just all in. It’s just life, man. It’s a fantastic book.

Collin Hansen
Oh, man, I love that. Well, I was looking forward to this interview. And I hope everybody gets to listen and see why my guest on gospel bound this week has been Jonathan sharks covers covers basketball for the ringer, on indefinite leave, Jonathan, we’re, we’re praying for you, rooting for you. And I will say this, you, you say that you don’t know you don’t feel closer to God or whatnot. But it’s obvious that the Lord is working in your life and he’s teaching us. He’s helping us. He’s helping the church to be the church and to worship God for who he is, through your faithfulness in this process. I’m grateful for that. Thanks, Jonathan.

Jonathan Tjarks
Thanks. I appreciate you saying that