Marriage Matters: Finding Connection When Life Is Full

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Laura Wifler
Well, hey friends, I’m going to kick us off. My name is Laura Wiffler. We were just noting that there is a lot of seats over on this side of the room, so if you’re on that side of the room and want to sit a little closer, or you’re looking for spots, head over there, because you can sit real close. And just so that we know we’re all in the right spot, this is the Marriage Matters breakout session, finding connection when life is full. And I am blessed to have two good friends here with me today, Trillia New Bell and Rebecca, or Becca Hannah. We’re calling you Becca Girl,

Rebekah Hannah
you can call me whatever you run,

Laura Wifler
call you whatever you want. My father-in-law says just don’t call me late for dinner, and he thinks it’s funny every time. So Trillia is a writer and author, and she has written a lot of books for adults and kids. She’s also an acquisitions editor at Moody. One of my favorite books of Trillia is Is God’s Very Good Idea. I’m sure so many of you guys are familiar with it. It’s about diversity, it’s in the Tales That Tell the True Story series, and it’s a great book to pick up over in the bookstore, so for Becca, Becca has an incredible bio. She is a biblical counselor and the president and CEO of Anchored Virtual, and co-founder of Road Leadership, and is the director of Family Formation at Redeemer Lincoln Square in New York City. So you can visit her booths, Anchored Virtual and road leadership at the bookstore area, and then she also has a great book, yeah, that’d be fine, The Secret to Confidence, and it’s incredible because this book has sold out, so you won’t be able to take it home with you today, but you can order it and get a great conference price, so head over to the Harvest House area, and you can check that out. Did you want to add anything to that? Yeah, still go still by the book, please. Yeah, go buy the book.

Speaker 1
That’s all.

Laura Wifler
And if you’re not familiar with me, my name is Laura Wiffler, and I am the former executive director of Risen Motherhood, which did a beautiful sunset about a year ago, and now I have continued to be able to write for both adults and children. I also have the Kidlet Lab, so if you are interested in writing a children’s book, come find me at the Kidlet Lab, and I help people craft children’s books that people want to read again and again. And my newest foray is into poetry, which I post a lot on Instagram, and this side of the sky is my upcoming poetry book, you can find that at the Tyndale booth, and pre-order it, get a great price, and that is coming out in September. So, thank you. That’s a bit of our housekeeping, but I want to get into what we’re here to talk about today, which is marriage, and this can be a bit of a fun topic and a dicey topic, so I’m excited to see where we go today. Who knows? But why don’t we start off with Trillia and Becca? Why don’t you guys tell us how long you’ve been married, how many children you have, and where you live? I’ll actually start before I pass it off. Laura Whittler, I am married. I’ve been married for 16 years, three children, the youngest of which has disabilities, which does shape our day to day. And then I live in Central Iowa. So, Trillia, all

Trillia Newbell
right. You know, I was doing the math in my head. When you get past 20 years, you start to kind of forget, but I believe it’s about 22 years, and, and, and I love him so much, and we have two children, one who’s about to be 20, which is weird, and another, my daughter, who is 16, she’ll be 17, so we have two children. I live in Franklin, Tennessee, which is right outside of Nashville.

Rebekah Hannah
Well, I am married to Andrew. We have been married for 19 years. We have three girls, which reminds me that God has a sense of humor. And I have one in high school, one in middle school, and one in elementary school. We live in New York City, and they all share a bedroom.

Laura Wifler
That is incredible. My kids would. I do not share

Rebekah Hannah
bedroom with them, they share with each other.

Laura Wifler
Good clarification. Yes,

Rebekah Hannah
I sleep in the bed with my husband, that’s all we needed

Laura Wifler
to know. All of our questions are answered. Yes. Good. Okay. Well, let’s kick it off, because I bet so many of you guys are like me, just with normal day to day, right, that connection can be so hard in the midst of busy schedules. I don’t care what season you’re in, how many kids you have, if you’re newlywed, if you’ve been married for 50 years, that day to day connection is really hard. So, what are some signs a couple could look for, or really, I think we’re talking to wives here, would be more relevant. What are some signs a wife might look for that they’re living on relational leftovers,

Rebekah Hannah
I asked my husband this question, and the first thing out of his mouth was indifference, and I thought that was brilliant, because when we are indifferent to the people around us. Then we stop losing the desire to connect with them. I think indifference is a sign that there’s just, we don’t have a whole lot left to give, and I also think it’s important. I was thinking about logistics. If you have a lot going on, which clearly we do, there is a sense in which there’s a way to do logistics in a cold manner, and there’s a way to do logistics in a warm manner, and if you’re doing logistics, and by logistics I mean someone has to go to soccer, and someone has to make dinner, and someone has to meet at this meeting, someone has.. we all have things that we have to do. If that’s being done in a cold manner, that’s really different than going, thank you so much for taking soccer practice today, so there’s a way to be busy and not indifferent and connect.

Trillia Newbell
Yeah, I will add to that one would be not talking, so passing through when you feel like you’re roommates and you’re just passing each other and you’re not really communicating. I would also say a lack of intimacy, so if you are lacking in intimacy, it might be that you’ve become roommates. That’s how I picture it, and so that to me, I think can be some signs that, okay, something might not be happening.

Laura Wifler
Yeah, I think we all just kind of feel it, right? We’re like, okay, I know that I love you, but what about the like part, the fun part, you know, the part where we’re goofy and like young high schooler type vibes. So we want, we all want that. Do you have something to add?

Rebekah Hannah
Yeah, an asterisk on the intimacy piece, because I just went right there to the intimacy. Well,

Trillia Newbell
I know that there are some people who there’s seasons when you can’t be intimate, there’s things that happen. I know those things are realities for many of you, and so I just want to say there’s no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. I would not add a law to that or a rule at all, ever, ever. I would say that if you have a healthy, normal, general life, and you are lacking intimacy, that could be a sign.

Rebekah Hannah
It could be yes. And intimacy looks different from person to, from couple to couple, so not comparing your intimacy to your friends, or that kind of a thing, is important.

Laura Wifler
Yeah, I love that. That’s good clarification. Okay, so kind of in some remedy to that, what are some of those small habits, so not the big blocks, but the small day-to-day habits that you guys would say builds connection over time, especially thinking through couples who either don’t have or don’t want to spend a lot of money, you know, childcare energy. What are some of those things that you would say day to day? This kind of helps relationships thrive.

Trillia Newbell
My husband and I, we usually sit at the breakfast table together, so that’s something that we just do it, and it’s simple. It’s every day we wake up and we have coffee together. That’s just something really easy that isn’t a law or isn’t something that we have to think about. We just do it. Another thing we do is take walks. We have two dogs, and so if we have a chance, we’ll just take a walk together. And so that’s again something that’s really easy. You don’t have to plan a four, you know, course meal or spend hundreds of dollars to take a walk, and so those are just really simple, easy things that we do.

Rebekah Hannah
Yeah, I like to say the connection really is built in micro moments. It’s not built in the grand gestures. You might like grand gestures, and that’s okay, but really that’s those micro moments that really make us and build a relationship, and so it doesn’t have to be a big thing. It can be the coffee. I would love to sit and have coffee in the morning with my husband. That’s not happening in our apartment, for the record. We’re trying to get to school, and I’m trying not to, you know, be an angry mom. So, and my husband’s typically gone. He works in the medical field, so he’s gone in the morning. So, also, what does that look like for you? It can just be little bitty moments. Maybe you don’t have time to do dinner, maybe you do just have time to sit and go grab a drink together, or go on a walk. We do a lot of walks, my husband and I do. We live in New York City, so we will literally just say, look at each other, go, let’s take a lap. We’re taking a lap, so we’ll take a lap. So I think not expecting it to be it will not work in my life to do a regular date night. That’s just not possible in this season of my life, and that’s okay.

Laura Wifler
My top tip is, put down your phone,

Trillia Newbell
that’s good. Yeah,

Laura Wifler
turn off the TV. Right, these are things that I think so quickly it’s like maybe my husband’s watching TV and I’m scrolling my phone, or we’re both doing both, and it’s like, oh, that could be time, right? Because you go out on a date and you go sit down for dinner and suddenly you have so much to talk about, and you’re chatting and you’re back and forth, but you’re. Home, you’re on your couch, and you have like nothing to say to each other, but if you went out like this, you changed the context, right? You have all these things, and so for my husband, I will often put down our phone, put down our, or turn off the TV, and go out on our back porch, and sit, and we can’t really leave our house because we have a daughter with disabilities, and it doesn’t work as well for us to go on walks, but for us, it’s kind of like, hey, let’s go to a different space and get rid of these silly phones, and get rid of the TV, and talk, and the other just small tip, very practical, that I would give is, I realized for a while when my husband would walk in the door, I’m typically in the kitchen, and I can turn and look to the right and see him walking through the mud room, and sometimes I didn’t even acknowledge him coming home, or be like, “Hey, babe, and I’m like unloading the dishwasher still, and I really have tried hard to turn and just say, “Hi, honey, I’m so glad you’re home, and then to walk over to him and give him a kiss, and that has really been helpful for our relationship, is kissing each other goodbye, kissing each other when he comes home, and just acknowledging those transition moments in front of our kids, no matter how busy or crazy it is, I mean, sometimes our house will be so loud and crazy, and we just take a second to acknowledge one another and to have some physical affection, and I think that can really help. So, okay, but sometimes, if you’re like me, you’re in maybe a longer season of feeling kind of irritated or annoyed with your spouse, and you know, for me, I think my unnatural demeanor would be to kind of withdraw, and maybe even to feel a little bit defensive, or blame him for, you know, all the reasons why we’re not connecting. And so, what are some things that you might say? How can we break out of those habits and patterns as wives when we start to.. I don’t know, again, how everyone’s marriage works, but in my relationship, usually my husband is just like perfectly fine, and I’m the one that’s like, you know, about everything, and he’s like, I had no idea. So, what would you guys say?

Rebekah Hannah
I’ll let you start. This

Laura Wifler
is why I love being the host. I’m like, I’m giving them all the hard questions.

Rebekah Hannah
Well, okay, so marriage panels are tricky because everyone in here has a different marriage. So, I just want to say that first and foremost. So, take what we say not as law, but as how we experience some things. I am a counselor, so I have done a lot of marriage counseling. One thing particularly for me, is not to – I don’t even know if I’m going to say this word right, but catastrophize it – is that the right word? I, we can make a big deal out of something that maybe doesn’t need to be a big deal. You can get angry and be in conflict with each other and actually work to the end of the conflict that can happen. We live in a small Manhattan apartment, so our kids see everything. So, oftentimes, besides my motivation to want to be like Jesus and walk with Jesus, is I want to see, I want my kids to see my husband and I walk through the end of a conflict, repent, hug each other, kiss each other, and then go, and us go that we got to the other side of this conflict. What was your question?

Laura Wifler
I’m not really sure anymore, but I love where you’re going. I think it’s like, you know, whenever you’re irritated, how do you move towards your husband?

Rebekah Hannah
Yeah,

Laura Wifler
yeah,

Rebekah Hannah
yeah, and oftentimes you just need to get over yourself and do it, that is not always the answer. Okay, so like, there are hard marriages and hard things. There are abusive marriages. I’m not saying we get over that, just to be clear. But one question I ask myself is, why am I irritated? Is it because I have a preference that’s not getting met, and I’m being selfish, even though I don’t admit it? Or is it a sin that I need to repent of? Or is it? You know, what is it? Is it a preference? Is it something I’m wanting? What am I wanting it? Why am I wanting what I’m wanting? So, asking myself those questions first before I even move towards him.

Trillia Newbell
So, in the fight or flight, I am fight. I do not withdraw. I go straight to the problem, and so, so for me it’s about giving the space and letting, letting him process whatever it is, because I’m ready to talk, I want to get it out. Let’s deal with it. Let’s move on, but so many of us also, and I will have struggled with this in the past, what’s the scripture? Don’t let any root of bitterness something or another something, anyways, don’t do it. So, yes, so we want to make sure that we are asking God for help and submitting our hearts to him, and so if there is bitterness or something that is growing, ask God for help and submit it to him. And I also would say that we need to be slow to speak and quick to listen, and so that is very hard, especially for us women, we want to. Correct, and we want to say all the things, and we feel like we need to talk, and we need to be heard, and so that happens in our marriages. So I would just say, if you’re, if, if you’re like me, you probably maybe need to slow down and wait, and and then pursue, pursue your husband and ask God to give you eyes to see him as he does, which is covered in Christ’s righteousness.

Laura Wifler
Yeah, I really love talking about the root of bitterness. I think one thing that has been so helpful for me, we went to a marriage conference in February, so this is not my advice, but the counselor who spoke said you need to give five affirmations for every one critique, and I was like, I thought it was a compliment sandwich, you know, I thought it was like one, then critique, then one more, you know, like five, that’s so many, but it was really helpful to hear some of the reasoning even behind it, which I won’t go into for time today, but think about that: five affirmations before you offer a critique, and that doesn’t mean you’re just like, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bam, you know, it’s more like, right, that’s what I do, it’s more like, over the course of time, is your marriage flavored with affirmation, because something that I know, I think a lot of us, we want to see, we see the potential of our spouse, and we see what they could be. They hopefully see that in us as well. And so I think, in general, our critiques are coming from this place of saying, I know what you could be, that Keller calls it the future glory self, right, of our spouse. But I’ve had to remember that first of all, we can’t work on everything at once, that’s just impossible. He can’t work on everything at once, I can’t. But also, that I want our marriage to be flavored with him feeling affirmed and in more than enough. And then maybe there are some valid things that I want to share, but you know, where is that in my accounting, and where’s that landing? So that’s just like kind of a practical tip, I think that’s really hard when you’re feeling irritated, but it’s something that is really good practice to choose to choose to speak life into your husband. Okay, I want to think through with you guys a little bit about what about a wife who feels overlooked or unappreciated, just kind of let’s just say the typical everyday marriage, again, we’re becoming roommates, type of vibes. How do you offer that? How do you change, right? How do you get out of the marriage funk, and what does that look like as a couple?

Trillia Newbell
So, you’re saying that the woman feels overlooked, okay? So, it’s not that there’s just a funk that she’s not being appreciated, he’s maybe

Laura Wifler
not recognizing it right. He’s just,

Trillia Newbell
I always tell you, want to say, “Well,

Rebekah Hannah
raise your hand if you’ve ever felt this

Laura Wifler
way. Okay.

Rebekah Hannah
Oh my goodness, asking,

Trillia Newbell
okay?

Rebekah Hannah
Because we all have.

Trillia Newbell
Yeah,

Rebekah Hannah
this is a human problem. Go ahead.

Trillia Newbell
No, you wanted to

Rebekah Hannah
know. I just wanted to see everyone in the room raise their hand.

Trillia Newbell
Yeah, well, I mean, I was just thinking that if you’re feeling overlooked, don’t keep it to yourself, and that so if I think that we have a temp, we’re tempted to think that the holy thing to do is to keep quiet, and yet we’re also brothers and sisters, which just sounds strange. You’re married to your brother in Christ, so and so you want to, you want to, you can share in a way that is humble and gracious, and but if you’re not, I don’t know how you’re going to be unified or how you’re going to encourage one another if he doesn’t know how you’re feeling, so, so my suggestion is actually, and I’ve shared this, if there is a busy season or if something’s happening, hey, I’ve actually, I use that roommate language in here, because I’ve used that roommate language with him, like, hey, we got to be careful not to become roommates, we’re not roommates, we’re married, and so let’s make sure that we’re carving out time, or whatnot, and and so we’ve made changes over our 20 something years of marriage, and so that is what I would encourage you, is is not to to keep it to yourself. I would also say there have been times, there was only one time where I felt like what was happening needed outside help. It was because my dear husband was anxious about a financial situation we he’s never dealt with anxiety before, so I didn’t know how to help him because he’s so chill and he’s so chill and so I was like he’s anxious and so I asked my pastor to help and we came in together and we talked it through and so I’m saying that to say there are times when you just need help and. Can ask, hey, do you think we need counseling? This is maybe, maybe it’s beyond the overlooked, but, but maybe it isn’t, and so you might need help, and that’s okay too, because I think in our circles often we struggle to ask for help, so that’s my encouragement to you, is to be honest, to be open, and ask for help if you need it.

Rebekah Hannah
I think that’s great. I

Laura Wifler
want to hear what you have to say. You got anything else?

Rebekah Hannah
Yeah, when we’re feeling overwhelmed, or not overwhelmed, overlooked again, asking yourself why, but don’t assume that he knows what to do to help you not feel that way, so if you have specific things that you’re hoping for, you can share, like, hey, it would be really helpful if you did xyz. That we have a tendency not to want to do that as women, because they should figure it out on their own, right? But that’s actually really unloving. I can’t make expectations for people without explaining these are my expectations, and then punish them for not meeting them. So, when you’re feeling that way, one, make sure that you’re not punishing them for expectations that you haven’t even vocalized to them, and two, as you’re discerning your own heart, be able to lean in and go, here are some things that are helpful, and then hold those loosely when they mess them up, because they will, and so will you, right? And then even exploring in questions like, hey, do you feel overlooked? Like, do you feel like I’m not engaging? Am I doing this to you also?

Laura Wifler
And what about when you feel hurt, or you’ve been wronged by your spouse, and let’s just say within, like, kind of normal marital bounds of health. How do you bring up those painful things that our spouses are doing that really genuinely do need changed or worked on? Sort of signing these every time, so you two don’t just look at each other. Sorry,

Trillia Newbell
you go.

Rebekah Hannah
Okay. The question is, when we are sinned, like a

Laura Wifler
genuine, you’ve been sinned against by your spouse. Yeah, this

Rebekah Hannah
is just gonna happen. This is part of life, right? So, even having grace towards your spouse, I was out to eat with my teenage daughter. This was a couple months ago. My husband and I had gotten in a conflict, and she said to me, I don’t know how you do it, Mom, and I was like, “Oh, whoa, sister. Okay, while you’re eating your French fries, let me tell you something. What does it look like for me to give grace to the people around me when they hurt me? It was an opportunity for me to go, “Okay, yeah, but do you know how many times I’ve hurt your dad? Also, how many times I’ve had to repent, also, and so there’s going to be hurt again, not to like we don’t have to make a bigger deal out of it than it necessarily has to be. Once it becomes a pattern of something that is painful and then causes long-term consequences, that kind of shifts into a different category, and again, if you’re not communicating about that, then they may not know, but you can’t expect them to know. And what does it look like for you to extend God’s grace to them as that happens?

Trillia Newbell
I was just thinking my daughter would probably say to her, “Dad, Dad, I don’t know how you do that.

Rebekah Hannah
Well, to be clear, my daughter and my husband are identical to each other, so she’s

Trillia Newbell
like, ‘Mom, I don’t know how you do with either, exactly. I actually, I was, you know, it’s interesting, you are going to sin against one another, and I usually, I call our whole family a repenting family, we have, we confess it, we repent because we sin against each other, and that’s not.. I wish it were immediate, like we sinned against you. Oh, I forgive you, and you know, I confess it’s not.. it sometimes takes a minute, but the Lord has just been faithful to help us see it eventually, because we have the spirit, and so, so I think practicing that, practicing confession and repentance, and asking for forgiveness, and asking God’s forgiveness helps. Now, if you’ve been sinned against, similar to what I said earlier, I do believe there is a space and a time and a place to say it to, and, and not to accuse, but to maybe ask. When you said this, did you mean this? I’m confused. What, what are you angry about? You know, ask and don’t accuse, and, and I think that opens dialog a lot more than if you just go in on the person. Another thing I would say, and this again is a part of I think our temptation is to maybe go after it, whatever it is, is to wait until your heart is right, and what I mean is, if if we’re going to take what Becca said and. Just extend grace, it’s likely not going to happen the moment you’re sinning. You might have to take a minute, and so ask God to help you to want this person to grow, that it becomes not just about you being righted or whatnot to be treated right, but it’s oh, you want them to grow like Christ, and you want you want them to to enjoy the grace of God, and so ask God to make your heart right first, I think, and that will help you to lovingly serve them in correcting them as they sinned against you, and again, I believe Laura is, has qualified all of this. We are not talking of abuse, we are not talking about, yeah, it’s yes, yes,

Rebekah Hannah
yeah. I felt this like switch, actually, in my marriage, and this was maybe 10 years ago, but there was a switch in my heart before the Lord that went from praying for Him to change to praying for me to change, and there’s a small book by David Pallison called How Sanctification Works. It’s a tiny, it’s a great little book, but that switch really helped me come before the Lord, and go, if my husband never changes the way that I want him to, am I okay with that? And really, what that ended up doing was not changing my husband, but changing me to the things that were such a big deal, or the things that were heartbreaking, or the things that made me lay in bed, and I going, I’m stuck. Right? I’m like, we, I tell people this all the time. I’ve said it publicly. I would categorize our marriage as not necessarily an easy marriage. And so, in those years where it was hard and complicated, I’m going, “Wait, I’m in ministry, this is supposed to be easy. I’m supposed to know things, like we’re supposed to. I teach people things. Why does this feel so hard? And when that switched from he’s not doing or being how I want him to to going I’m the one that needs to change, not because he’s not responsible for himself, but I’m responsible for myself and my relationships with Jesus first.

Laura Wifler
Yeah, I love that. That was one of the things I was going to say, was just spend some time in prayer, you know, like you said, Trillia, too, like cool down a little bit first. And so often I think when we realize, you know, we’ve been sinned against, it’s, you know, I gotta, I gotta point this out, but instead stepping back and taking the time to really be thoughtful and to come with questions, or maybe not saying anything at all, being able to just take it to the Lord in prayer and ask the Spirit to convict him on, on it, on his own, and so often that, that works really well, you know. Hopefully, if you’re married to a believer, the spirit is living within them too, and we can trust that the spirit is working in them.

Rebekah Hannah
Yeah, and if you’re insulted by siblings sinning against you, you need to ask yourself why. Also, we are a body of believers that are going to hurt one another, like I’m not less of a sinner than anyone else who sins against me. So, if I’m insulted by someone’s sin, instead of going, ‘Okay, I’m hurt, and I know I have the tools to lament and grieve sin and death, because that’s what sin produces, I can grieve and lament that, and love them, and know, actually, I’m just as much of a sinner as you, and so I don’t have to hold that sin against you. I can actually move towards you in love.

Laura Wifler
Okay, friends, switching gears a tiny bit. What is some marriage advice that sounds spiritual but is actually unhelpful or incomplete? Trillia.

Trillia Newbell
Oh no, I have no idea.

Laura Wifler
She’s got nothing. Okay, okay, Becca,

Rebekah Hannah
okay. No one come at me, but

Laura Wifler
I can’t wait.

Rebekah Hannah
Truly, as Leah, I’m like, oh gosh, she’s the one that we say about don’t, don’t let the.. what is it? Don’t let the sun

Laura Wifler
go down on your anger.

Trillia Newbell
That

Laura Wifler
was

Rebekah Hannah
mine. Don’t let the sun go down on your anger, okay? That does not mean you have to finish the conflict, okay? You can be in conflict and not be angry. You can have an unresolved issue and work your heart out before the Lord, and go to bed, and know it’s 1am we shouldn’t talk about this anymore, and I don’t have to be angry about it. My husband can fall asleep standing up, he can fall asleep in the middle of the hardest conversation we’ve ever had, and I gotta be.. it’s really a gift that I’m kind of jealous of. First of all, I think I sleep. yeah, so. but that don’t, that doesn’t mean we have to figure it all out before we close our eyes.

Trillia Newbell
I don’t know. I have a lot more about suffering, to be honest, than I do about that trite stuff about suffering than I do about marriage. I don’t know. Know what, what people have said. I don’t read a lot of marriage books. I don’t do that. I think mostly because every marriage looks so different. So I really read the Bible and just pray. Wait, guys, I don’t know, I am, and I have always had older other people, couples in my, our lives and in our life to look to, and so, so I don’t know what cliche kind of trite thing that that’s said, but I do know this, and I trust this, that God is good. He is sovereign, and I can, I can run to him in my time of need with my marriage. And so I, I don’t, yeah, so I don’t know, I don’t know, but I would encourage you, if there is something like taking a scripture verse and falsely applying it to a time kind of like the joy comes in the morning. Well, your morning might be in 10 years, you know. And so, so we need so.. so those are the kinds of things that.. that’s why I love talking about Bible study, because those are the kinds of things that, if you understand context in it, if you read the word of God, you’re you, it will help you not to falsely apply things, and that includes to your marriage. So that’s my encouragement to you, is to actually read the word, ask, and don’t take cultural things and apply it to to your marriage, so if you see something and you think, oh, okay, this is what it should look like. Well, I mean, ask the Lord, look at his, look at the word, and see, okay, is this true or is this something that I am applying that is false. So that’s my encouragement to you, is to to ask, ask the Lord for discernment and wisdom, and yeah, interesting.

Laura Wifler
Yeah, love it. Becca, did you want to add anything?

Rebekah Hannah
Well, I run a counseling center, so I hear cliches all the time. I’ve heard a lot. I think one is just pray more. Prayer is one of the means by which God moves, for sure. Should we be praying? Absolutely, but there’s a whole lot of other things we can be doing, reading the word, drawing near to Christ, talking to trusted people in your local church, being in a small group as a couple, all these things. Just praying about it isn’t necessarily going to give you the solution, as it will help you draw near to the Lord. So that’s good. Yeah, that’s definitely one

Laura Wifler
I was thinking about the peaceful and quiet spirit. I know it’s not just about wives, but peaceful and quiet spirit, you know, how women were supposed to have that, and it’s just a misunderstanding, I think, because I’m a more outgoing, you know, extroverted girl, and I always felt like I could never be peaceful and quiet, but recognizing that’s a state of the heart, and so hopefully by now that myth has been somewhat debunked, but I think that that’s something that in marriage I always wanted to aspire to, and thought that meant I was demure, demure. I’m trying all these words that are too big for me today, you know, kind of like laid back and chill and quiet, and just not who I am in real life,

Trillia Newbell
and it’s not what the Bible means. By, yes, that’s what I mean. So, reading the scriptures and understanding, she’s like, I was right.

Rebekah Hannah
Everybody gave this answer.

Trillia Newbell
No, I mean, it’s so important. It’s so important that if we understand, okay, this is what this text means. This is an inner spirit that is trusting God. Then that’s a different thing than being quiet, and it’s okay if that is your personality, but that’s not what the scripture means, and so that’s why I believe most of our, not most, but many of our problems, especially when we’re applying things, is that we’ve misunderstood the Bible,

Laura Wifler
okay, couple more questions. What are some small compromises a couple might make that create distance between one another? Becca,

Rebekah Hannah
repeat the question one more time, please.

Laura Wifler
Oh my word, you guys. Complicated questions, I guess. What are the tiny compromises that slowly create distance between spouses.

Rebekah Hannah
Yeah, I mean, I think our thought lives really matter. What we spend our time thinking on, thinking on things that are right, true, good, perfect, that’s Jesus. Are we are we spending more time thinking about our schedule, the books we’re reading, the TV show we’re watching, our friends, our kids? There are there what you dwell on during the day really feeds into what your relationships are like, so I would say that was one, that’s one for sure.

Trillia Newbell
Yeah, I would think time, so if you are constantly putting things ahead of. Or in between time with your spouse, that is probably a small, and it does just add up, right? So you’re having a conversation, a kid’s kid comes in, and you’re instead of just asking me, “Hey, hold on one second, let’s finish this thing, you just turn your attention, which is very easy to do, or you know, whatever it is for you, I think time is that it’s just an easy thing to just kind of be squandered. To be frank,

Rebekah Hannah
one of the things I always say is we don’t, most people do not wake up and think I’m going to have an affair today. The way that happens is by small moments, small sacrifices, small tiny choices that we don’t even recognize. I was laughing out loud at myself earlier, read this question, because I thought, because 20 years ago we did not wear workout tights. Okay, when you went to the gym, people were wearing umbrellas and like sweatpants, and I remember the first.. I remember the first time I saw someone wearing workout tights, and I was like, those are like pantyhose, what are we doing? And 15 years later, guess what, I’m wearing all the time those tights, right? So, but it was.. it’s a.. I love workout tights, that has nothing to do with this conversation. The point is, the point is, it’s these moments of give, and then a little here, and a little here, and a little here, and that looks different for everybody.

Laura Wifler
Yeah, I think a couple of things I’ve just noticed for myself personally is when I’m not believing or assuming the best of my husband, that I kind of start assuming some of those negative motives or negative pieces, and so that’s always just a really good gut check to believe the best in your husband, and that also comes, I think, as we try to move towards our husband and recognize bids for affection, and that’s another phrase that I’ve heard that’s really helpful. I think I have more bids than my husband. My husband is like, totally fine, just, you know, like a pillow between us on the couch and the dog, and I’m like, no, I need to sit by you, right? Like, I really want to hold your hand, and learning, I think, what his bids of affection are, which are maybe like, let’s go hiking, or let’s go, you know, something for him, it’s like something really crazy, an adrenaline junkie type guy, and so let’s go do something like that, and so I can say yes, but for me, I’m like, I just want to hold your hand, and I have to really swallow my pride and humble myself and say, honey, will you just hold my hand, or for me to initiate holding his hand, and that sometimes just, I don’t know, as the girl, right, we just kind of feel like, but I want him to grab my hand, and you know, like, I don’t know, just be the first to put his arm around me, or be the first to grab me and kiss me, or whatever, and the reality is like, we don’t live in a chick flick, and so I have to be willing to, to just lay down my own pride and say, this is this is what I need, and I guess I have no shame anymore, being like, I just, will you just buy me flowers, I just need flowers, you know, and it’s like, and I’m gonna buy, like, great, you know, I’m delighted to receive it. I have

Rebekah Hannah
heard you could buy yourself flowers.

Laura Wifler
Oh, I can buy myself that song. Oh, yeah. Okay, I’m a terrible singer, so that was really close. It was really close. There, you guys almost heard it. I feel like there was one other thing I wanted to share, but oh, I know the other thing that’s really been convicting for me is how I speak about my husband in public. Oh, ladies, I think this is something that so often we are not careful about. And for very, very long with my husband, he worked a lot of hours, and he was away from home, and so I would go on family vacations alone, I would go to birthday parties alone, I would go to church events alone, and he was just gone a lot, and I had to start to learn to be able to say, you know, nope, my husband, he’s working, he’s providing for our family, instead of being like he’s at work again, you know, and like I would just kind of like want to complain, and I wanted people to feel pity for me and feel bad for me, but instead I really wanted to honor my husband when he was away and to recognize that he is is really doing his best and to again I needed to believe that in him believe the best in him but then also honor him with the way that I speak of him or so if we’re in a group of people how am I talking about him you know do you say like oh he like he never serves us he never cooks in the morning or or can you find something to compliment him on, you know? And I just think that it’s like a delicate little thing that I have to catch myself on, where you think you’re kind of making a joke or something, and you’re saying it funny, but if he said that about me, I would lose my mind. Oh, who’s my mom? Him in the car? Yeah, I’ll be like, nope, we don’t do that, babe. And so I want to make sure that I am holding to that standard where all my speech is honorable and complimentary of him, and if there is an issue, right, we’re going to, we can talk about that alone in private, or if there’s something that I wanted to make kind of a point about, but not doing that in public.

Trillia Newbell
I couldn’t agree more. I think that because. Women, we were funny, and we like to talk. We can, we wouldn’t do that typically, hopefully to other women, so we shouldn’t do that to our spouse. And it’s, it’s, I, I want to say, you should have, however, women in your life that you can be honest with and open with to tell to be to share what’s really going on, so you can get help and encouragement, but it shouldn’t be to demean your spouse, it shouldn’t be to tear them down, and so I believe that is a temptation for us to tear people down, to tear our husbands down, but love your neighbor as yourself. You would not want him to do that.