The Prosperity Gospel: How It Can Mislead and Harm

The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.

Aixa De Lopez
I think in God’s grace, He provides suffering. He don’t only lets it happen he provides. And so whenever the heartbreak comes, you have little tiny open door to talk about God’s sovereignty and the life that is not the real one is not here, the best life is not now. So whenever true suffering presents itself, you have to take it as an invitation to talk to them about how good God is right there, right in that moment.

Blair Linne
So it is so wonderful for us to be here again to have another conversation for glow, our podcast with the gospel coalition Podcast Network us for ladies from different parts of the world talking about God and His work in our lives and ministries and what he’s doing around the world. Today, we’re going to be talking about prosperity theology. My name is Blair Lynn, and I am joined with my sisters, I usually Lopez, Sharon Dickens and Sujin Park. And, again, we’re talking about prosperity theology. And there’s this popular message that’s preached in many of the largest churches around the world that actually contradicts what Jesus and his apostles taught. Its origins are built on a quasi Christian heresy that was popularized in the 19th and early 20th century in the United States known as New Thought. You know, New Thought is a philosophy which taught that the key to gaining wealth and health is thinking and visualizing and speaking the right words, and many are told that God’s greatest aim is to bless them with an abundance of wealth and perfect health. I know as a child, I fell prey to this message, this teaching, like so many others around the globe, I attended a church influenced very much by you know, God wants to bless you. And I had one time when I was a teenager was a Creflo Dollar partner. So I would give my money as a 17 year old so that I could sit in the VIP at the conferences, you know, sit in the front. And so what we were often encouraged was to sow a seed of faith, right to give our money in order to get money from God or to get other things from God. Another way is like, name it and claim it. Currently, we hear a lot about manifesting. That’s kind of the popular term, but it’s really that old New Thought teaching. And so this teaching started in the United States, but I’m interested to hear, you know, as it’s made its route its rounds around the globe. What is the impact look like where you live?

Aixa De Lopez
Sadly, I see the trend where you bring a message about just this overwhelming. Wellness, you know, all around wellness that is promised to you? Where is it going to resonate more? Where is it going to affect more with the people that need it the most. And so it’s so sad to know that this is the vulnerable people, the most vulnerable people are the ones clinging to the message more in what the mullah has been infected by it. I’m going to use that. So strong language, but that’s how it feels like it’s an infection. And I think it’s rampant throughout Latin America, you see poor communities just filling up stadiums or, you know, gatherings throughout the region, just in hopes of receiving that miracle, if only they believe. So,

Sharon Dickens
are you sure? Can we ask you? Yes, I’m always interested. And what happens to someone who is the most poor and destitute? And they just it doesn’t go their way. God doesn’t get them what they want. How does that impact their life for Jesus?

Aixa De Lopez
It’s, it’s a very evil, cruel way of, you know, the mechanics of it, because they keep people hopeful. If only, you know, it’s sort of like when you sit when you see people sit down in those machines in Las Vegas, maybe next time if I only believed. And then when things eventually don’t work out, it’s on them. They blame, you know, the line goes like, Well, you didn’t believe enough you doubted the you know, prosperity teachers have a way of twisting even the outcome. And so they all always have an excuse for it or they blame you for it, which is so cruel because I think I will go as far as to say it’s satanic because people lose a hope and not only in the Leadership but in in the Lord in a very in false grounds, you know, so it’s always manipulated. And when the outcome doesn’t go the way that you want it, it’s it’s never sovereignty, the Lord sovereignty is never taught. And there’s no theology for suffering. So there’s no framework for that. It’s either you get it your way, or maybe something’s wrong with you, or your faith or you don’t love God enough for where there’s a generational curse. That’s another favorite. So it’s very sad, tragic.

Blair Linne
How about you, Sharon? Is the prosperity theology prevalent for you I’m

Sharon Dickens
so very similar to some of the stuff that I’m Aisha was saying it would be when I was a younger Christian, I would have seen it more prevalent I probably because it a bit like you went to churches when I was first saved, that we’re preaching a gospel that no, no recognized. And so it has had an impact. But what we’re seeing now is, so very much when I was younger, it was much more people that were charismatic, some of my friends come from that side. And it’s really demoralizing. It’s fade, the very dissatisfied spam, most of my friends always chasing the next prayer or feeling or meeting that she needs to never a satisfaction in God. And then there’s always that striving for the next the next healing. The next break in all four manner. There’s a discontentment that’s there. And it always makes me sad. But most of what we’re starting to see now in the last, I would say three or four years, we’re seeing this influx of what would be more recognized as the African prosperity gospel. So like the, they have these strange names, where it’s all about get job, get money, get the big car, get the cows. And so we this, that twist of war, and that misunderstanding of what blessing actually is,

Aixa De Lopez
that’s exactly what I was going to say. The words have been twisted around so much that it’s it’s a biblical language, taught in an in an unbiblical, terrible way. So there’s tons of confusion. So you speak about blessing, but it’s not the blessing that Jesus teaches. It’s, it’s, it’s just another thing.

Sharon Dickens
And the scary thing is the thing that is this, the thing that scares me the most, particularly the friends that I know, it’s this right, that they feel that they have to demand from God, a blessing that they feel justified in asking. And there’s, there’s there’s more than a petulance there. And there’s no reverence for God. And it’s that scares me. I mean, he’s not, it’s not like some sort of secret santa or the game, that she’s out this list of things that people think that they have to have in their life to be satisfied. But yeah, there’s that that element of, I’m always looking for something that they’re never gonna get. And that does dissatisfaction not only with themselves, but particularly with God when they don’t get it.

Blair Linne
It makes me think, you know, when I was young, coming up, really bound to this teaching. You know, I took so many scriptures out of context. So scriptures, like I could do all things through Christ who strengthens me, it meant I could fulfill my business plan, and I could, you know, have the career that I wanted and the house that I wanted. And it wasn’t until I was able to really see, well wait, what is the context? And why do I desire things more than God? I remember, I was at this church, and I had been reading through the Bread of Life discourse, you know, in John six, which talks about, you know, of course, Jesus feeding the 5000. And, and the Lord really ministered to me because he said, you know, in your church context, you guys would be so excited about the fact that he was able to give this bread out and give these fish out, which is great. But what about me, I am the bread of heaven, you know, and, and I remember telling my friends, I was at my prosperity church, and I was like, what Jesus is the bread, you know, like, I was running around, and they kind of looked at me like, I was crazy. I’m like, we’re so excited about the miracle. But what about Jesus? And this is actually before I was actually a believer, but it was like the Lord was just just began to minister to my heart and point me to him. But we often want things we often don’t want the Lord, which is so sad that it’s been so perverted. The message of the gospel was so perverted, that it’s no longer about God anymore really is all about us and our our life.

Sharon Dickens
So when you started to question that, I mean, apart from the initial shortcut was how did you friend respond to you challenging them through some of the questions that you’re asking yourself?

Blair Linne
Yeah, I certainly didn’t have it all figured out at the time. You know, this was just kind of one moment that I had with the Lord. And they just kind of looked at me like, I was crazy, like, Okay, why are you so excited about this, you know, and so it wasn’t necessarily well received. So eventually, my zeal kind of died out. And by God’s grace, a few years later, actually came to the Lord. But I do look back on that moment, and I say, Thank You, Lord, that, you know, I was able to be right there in the midst of poor teaching. And the Lord in His mercy was still ministering, calling me out of darkness, you know, into his light,

Aixa De Lopez
amen. I can I can, I can say combat. I am a living testimony of the power of God, just picking you up from wherever you are. My husband must associate pastor to a mega church. It was an outright prosperity gospel, but it was enough man centered that I would say, it wasn’t healthy. And the Lord took it upon himself to transform the way I saw him. And so there’s, you know, there’s even as someone would would have said it before, there’s pockets of grace, even in those contexts, because God is merciful, and he’s beautiful, and he wants to save. So he does, in some very well, meaning people just give themselves over even to those bad leaders. And he does save even in the midst of that context. So I’m thankful for that church, where I was basically born in spite of it, even but, you know, there’s so much love that I received through that. But I would say, it’s, it’s what you said, is central, it’s the man is the center. We what we want,

Soojin Park
but I think even the fact that you said your previous church, it wasn’t fully prosperity gospel, but it was man centered. I think that’s so important. Because even in the US, I see a lot of well meaning Christians in these contexts where, because they’re not explicitly preaching, like, you’re gonna get rich, they think it’s not prosperity gospel, but there’s so much more to it. There’s like that subtlety of prosperity gospel in that you could preach a good message and at the end, like sneak in the Oba we will not take no for an answer, like God will absolutely heal you. And there’s no other way. And that’s it’s the same mentality, right? It’s what you said about, there’s no fear before the Lord, you demand things from the Lord. It’s that posture of I have determined for myself what I need and want, and God will give me that it’s not about God, it’s about you. And so I think a lot of times when we think prosperity gospel, we’re like, Oh, I’m gonna get a car, I’m gonna get house these very explicit things. But I think it shows up a lot, especially here in the states in very subtle ways as well,

Blair Linne
I agree. And I was thinking even as an American, the whole concept of the American dream, can just cloud our minds, you know, and our eyes, our vision, and, you know, we look up and we’re pursuing the American dream, we’re not pursuing the Lord, you know, but often, we might be in churches that are considered Evangelical, they might you know, what I’m saying, like, these aren’t, you know, the list of the names that we can throw out of those who are teaching health and wealth gospel. But it might be happening in our own churches, in our own heart.

Soojin Park
And I think even the way you said, it’s always the most needy who are drawn to it, I see it too in like immigrant communities here in the States, and just how they’re plagued by it, because the American Dream is so real for them, like they want it so badly. And I think that’s the scary part about America too, is that upward mobility is possible, and they see it. And so it’s very much like a reality and it becomes entrenched in them that this is what God wants. For me. What God wants for me is the American dream. It’s the big house with the fence and the picket, you know, white picket fence, and those things are all good, but it turns into God wants this specifically for me. And there’s an I kind of like what you guys said, I think when people don’t find that kind of, quote, unquote, favor in their workplace in their career, whatnot. I’ve seen people just distraught and destroyed because it’s not just career failure. It’s not just financial failure, but to them, it becomes spiritual failure. They’re they’re crumbled in every way. Yeah.

Aixa De Lopez
I would like to just point out that there’s something that I see in what Amala you export a model, a culture, and it’s not a we, you know, we didn’t get a Bible culture. We didn’t get a scripture loving culture. We got these celebrity platform lights, Miracle culture, and so you can go into a very small village image. But if there is a prosperity Gospel Church there, the temple is out of, you know, context, the pastor will be like a celebrity with expensive suits, he’ll drive around in the best car. And this is like, Wait, this is not even culturally, you know, it’s just not congruent with, with with with the culture but that’s not what matters most. It doesn’t reflect the love of Jesus, it doesn’t reflect the lifestyle of by Bible believing Christians. So that’s kind of weird to me, and I see it like you can see a televangelist, you know, TBN, for example, and then go into a small little town and go into one of those churches, and it would be a replica of that, that you saw on TV, which is wild to me.

Blair Linne
Just the influence. It’s interesting how, like, we can have this idea of what we think God wants us to have. These are not promises that God has given. These might be promises a man has given you know, a pastor or evangelists has given or even we put upon ourselves. And then when we don’t receive those things, it impacts our whole faith. It impacts how we view God, like there’s no room for a job. In the prosperity god, there’s no room for Jesus for Paul, you know what I mean? Yeah, the idea of suffering for righteousness sake, for having everything stripped away, because you’re righteous, because God is testing you like he has actual plan. And he’s working this out for his purposes. One of the things that I think is important for us to define because we’ve talked about, you know, the health and wealth gospel, I think it’s important for us to think through Well, what is the gospel? Right? What what is the good news? And so I’m wondering Sujin, if you would share, what’s the gospel?

Soojin Park
Yeah, you know, I think there’s a lot of different ways you could put it together. But this is how I want to share today is, the gospel is the good news that though we have all sinned and justly deserved punishment, God accomplishes salvation for us through the person and work of Jesus Christ, Jesus lived, the life of obedience we could not have became the perfect sacrifice on our behalf to atone for our sins, He will one day return and read the world of all traces of sin, fully restoring creation so that those who have faith in Him may enjoy our lives with him forever, man. And I love that unlike the prosperity gospel, the true prize of faith is not material things, but Christ Himself. And there’s the emphasis on the fact that restoration is not going to fully happen until Jesus comes back. And so our lives will not look sparkling clean until that point, and that until that point, we will still suffer, like you said, even in righteousness.

Blair Linne
That’s right. Now, how do you get someone there? Right? So you have someone like me, you know, at one time, like you at one time, I used to also who was just bound to this teaching, you know, if you know someone who’s struggling and kind of just inundated with this belief that this is God’s plan for my life, all he wants for me is to bless me and he wants to give me everything that I want right here and right now. How do you walk with a person? How do you point them to Jesus and to the true gospel in a loving way?

Aixa De Lopez
I think in God’s grace, He provides suffering, he provides it he don’t only let it happen, he provides it. And so whenever the heartbreak comes, you have little tiny open door to talk about God’s sovereignty in in the life that is not the real one is not here. The best life is not now. So whenever there is heartbreak, whenever there is suffering, you have a door open. And a lot of the times what happens in these contexts is the people, especially in leadership, they go through it, but they won’t talk talk about it, they hide it, because that’s not victorious. And so what happens is, you get people who live two lives. And that’s a tragedy. That’s not God’s will for anybody. So whenever true suffering presents itself, you, you have to take it as an invitation to talk to them about how good God is right there. Right in that moment. So that’s what I would say. Um,

Sharon Dickens
I think we’ve talked about in other episodes, we talked about hospitality about really getting alongside someone and be intentional. And then actually at the end of every single episode So we caught Matthew where it’s talking about being late. And so the reality is when you’re walking with someone continually we have every opportunity when we’re talking life, and what they heard at church on Sunday, how they’re coping with a certain scenario, or even dealing with a discontentment, to continually bring in light into the untruths that they’re believing to speak gospel truth, to remind them about Jesus to continually point them. And the thing I’ve got a friend who I would meet, she’s very much driven by fueled by and spends her life listening to unhelpful teaching like this. And she absolutely with a passion loves the Lord. And she’s had, I would say, very unhelpful teaching. Actually, she’s very capable of thinking through light yourself with challenge and over the time, and it’s not been one of those five minute conversations. We’ve been in each other’s lives for a long time. And it’s a long walk to always be speaking the truth and being faithful. And so not only speaking word, but sure not in the midst of suffering, like Utah lately, like we were talking about earlier, a while Luke slate to be clinging to Christ, what true blessing truly looks like. The fact that being content, the greatest and most glorious blessing that we could ever have is the light our salvation, and grabbing the fact that if we got nothing else from Jesus that was more than we ever deserved, and constantly speaking those truths and our life, what’s been really interesting is that she’s starting to do like what you were saying earlier, Blair, asking questions about things that she took for granted before. And so I think there’s lots of ways you can slay charmer, pieces of Scripture and you can walk alongside, you can bet all the time, I think that we’re continually supposed to be just speaking truth, speaking the truth and the love, which we talked about in the hospitality, podcast, where we just speak well, faithfully, lovingly compassionately truth in people’s life, stuff they might not want to hear. But we love them enough to tell them anyway.

Aixa De Lopez
And also suffer Well, yourself. One of the greatest blessings that we have, as a family is being near people who have lost a lot. They have been great witnesses. So our children, I would think, you know, people who’ve lost wives and brothers and mothers and babies and in are still tender toward God, we stick close to them, and we just watch them suffer well, for Christ in, in that just takes care of a lot. Suffering well. And keeping a tender heart toward God, even. That doesn’t mean that you don’t struggle. You struggle, but you struggle in, you know, trusting, and you don’t hide your struggle, that’s part of suffering well, and I think that speaks volumes of, you know, how people understand who God is and what he’s supposed to do for you. If they watch us, trust Him and struggle and be angry at the loss and go through all that in front of them. I think it’s comforting.

Soojin Park
And I also think on top of that, what’s really, really helpful is to demonstrate to others, this longing for eternity, that even if you’re suffering, even if you’re doing really well in life, even if you have a lot of material things and other people look at you with envy to constantly remind them. And yet I still long for something better, I still long for eternity. I remember in college, I saw a pastor weep as he prayed just to be with the Lord, to be with the Lord in eternity. And I just remember that made such an impact on me. I’ve never seen someone weep for something beyond this life like that. And I still hold that memory to this day. And I think it’s really greatly shaped me. And I think, to show others who are struggling with this idea that they need to have material things here on Earth, or a certain lifestyle or certain favor here on Earth, I think to remind them that we are meant for something far greater. I feel like there’s nothing more that you could do for them than to give them that reminder.

Blair Linne
That’s so good. It’s just another testament, as all of you guys have spoken on loving someone that’s different than you were in such polarizing times. And I think typically the temptation is just, I’m just going to hang out with my people. And those are their people, you know, but it’s like, no, these are people that I’m called to pursue and love, even though we may be different. And that’s an opportunity to be able to share Christ and share the Gospel. Now we’re going to transition to some other differences. We’re going to shine the light on our differences. So what’s the cheapest thing someone could get for you? That would legit make you happy.

Aixa De Lopez
I got a story for this. So I love my aunt’s, in one of them was a single mother with three kids. She’s, you know, imagine the struggle that she went through. But she made sure to give us a gift on each birthday and Christmas. And she would go to a thrift shop shop. We have little thrift shops in every neighborhood and what Amala and you can get stuff for pennies. But she would pick out the right size, the right color, and she will take it home wash it and wrap it up and tell you this is Fred that from thrift shop. But I love you and I thought of you when I saw this in. I mean, I don’t remember many other gifts from my childhood, but I do remember her in that heart. It didn’t take much

Sharon Dickens
is going to be one of these, like reoccurring themes, where things mean something but weren’t expensive. We have this. We have this woman at church she’s like, man, we talked about hospitality recently and honest to goodness, she’s like, that’s that’s her that she lives this life. And she thinks I’m curious for and actually actively pursues to want to love the church well, and she does this and really like small incision, insignificant waves. And and she doesn’t law. And so I remember one day I was having a pity party. And I remember it was actually a really bad day. But I remember praying through the whole day in synagogue at the end. Because sometimes when you’re on your own, and you’ve got a lot of things going on, the last thing you want to do is cook dinner and I’m like, I was having a moment I was like I don’t even have anybody to make dinner for me. And then I was like, hey, grab Shabba like kill yourself and upgraded sort of my heart, went about my day and did everything. And I was walking the dog late that evening. And I’m thinking I need to think about dinner and she sent me this text. And then the text it says have left something on your doorstep. And when I got home, there was this little bag. And inside the bag was like dinner and dessert and a little note. And she does her all the time. And so I was blessed by the fact that God loves me through her and the insignificant like really insignificant moments. But also the fact that she loved me enough to think about me and made me dinner. It was amazing. I mean, it tasted extra special. But she does it all the time. And I love it. So yeah, when people do stuff like that, leave your little parcels of food or donuts or flowers on your doorstep, when you come home. To me them.

Blair Linne
That reminds me, one of the things that I love receiving is my kids at times, like they’ll send me little little write notes and draw pictures. And my daughter, she has the gift of encouragement. It’ll be like, Mommy, you’re doing a great job, you know. And I just think like, they don’t have to write these notes. You know, no one’s forcing or, you know, saying write a note for me or anything like that. This is something they’re doing just out of love. And it just means so much to me. So I’ll receive a note from my kids anytime.

Soojin Park
Speaking of notes, I also love anything written. So I mean, I’m the type of person I have boxes. Have anyone who’s ever written me cards or notes since I was in elementary school. I still have with me. Yeah. So words are big for me. So I always say, like, the best gift I could receive is like a really thoughtful card or letter. I’ll just immediately we then I’ll treasure it forever.

Sharon Dickens
We all know what we’re sending

Soojin Park
long letters,

Sharon Dickens
cards from all over the world.

Aixa De Lopez
Yes. Yes. Awesome. So

Sharon Dickens
you know the thing that I’ve always done the light and the difference things but the thing when you think about it, at the heart of everything that we’ve said is people are given their time. Or I mean, it’s not even sacrificial, although I would find regular sacrificial to have to check my spelling. But the reality is, it’s that given off self, to show that you’re loved mean that none of us said all the best thing that I ever got was and named a thing. It was all an element of the feeling that was behind it. What drove the answer. And so when it comes down at dance was important. When we get distracted by the blank Bay is just distraction is, is just making sure I’m staying on track. And I’m I’m ending it today girls, and so I am thankful for the chat. It was love the fact that the more we get to know each other, the more stories that we’re telling, and the deeper the conversation so I’m grateful for that. So thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing. And I want to finish with the reverse Matthew 514 16 You are the light of the world and say that set upon a hill shall not be hidden, either to me and light a candle and put it under the basket, but on a light stand and it gives light to all who are in the house. In the same we’ll let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. And hope to see or listen to you or whatever it is, again soon.