Ministry to Children and Youth (with Jared Kennedy)

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Jared Kennedy
Ephesians convinced me of this because he talks about them being of one faith and one baptism and one in Christ. And then you get to the end of the book, and he starts addressing individual family members. He says, Husbands, wives, and then even he says, Children obey your parents in the Lord. And so he’s aware in the way that he’s teaching that they have relational responsibilities to one another, and yet he’s not afraid as a pastor to address each one and to do discipleship with each member of the family as well.

Matt Smethurst
Welcome friends to the everyday pastor a podcast on the nuts and bolts of ministry from the gospel coalition. My name is Matt Smethurst, and I’m Luke Duncan, and today we’re joined by our friend Jared Kennedy to talk about ministering to children and youth. This is a topic that we’ve heard from a lot of pastors they would love to see us address Speaking of which, if you ever want to leave feedback on this show or suggest a topic for consideration, you can do so at tgc.org/everyday pastor. Tgc.org/everyday pastor, we would really welcome your feedback and suggestions. Jared Kennedy serves as managing editor for books and curriculum for TGC. He’s also the series editor of a relatively new series of short books that TGC is putting out called the hard question series. And I actually just yesterday in the mail, got the latest too. Where is God in a world with so much evil? By Colin Hansen, and did the resurrection really happen? By Timothy Paul Jones, thank you very much, Jared for your work on that series. He’s also the author of books like The Beginners Gospel story Bible and the story of Martin Luther. He and his wife, Megan, live with their three daughters in Louisville, Kentucky. I used to live there. That’s why I pronounced it correctly, Louisville, that’s right, where they’re part of sojourn church Midtown, and Jared served there as a children’s minister and then as a family pastor for 14 years. Hence, why we wanted him to come and help everyday pastors Think well about the topics of children and youth. Jared, thank you very much for joining us today.

Jared Kennedy
It’s really a joy to be with you.

Matt Smethurst
Let’s just start here. What is the role of the church vis a vis the role of parents in discipling children?

Jared Kennedy
Yeah, I think we often think of the responsibilities that are given to the nation of Israel and to the parents within Israel and Deuteronomy chapter six to teach your children as you walk, as you sit down together in your homes, as you walk along the road, as you go to bed at night and as you get up in the morning. I often think of those first two is as mealtime and as as drive time. I often turn to Psalm 78 as well, which is ASOS, who was one of David’s musicians. He’s thinking about Deuteronomy six, and he’s teaching through song the people of the nation about their responsibilities. And beginning in verse five, it says he decreed statutes for Jacob and established the law in Israel, which he commanded our ancestors or our fathers to teach to their children so the next generation would know them, even the children yet to be born. And they, in turn, would tell their children who come after them. I mean, I think in, you know, in our American society, and we can tend to think of the responsibility of of the nuclear family, Mom and Dad’s responsibility to teach these truths at mealtime, at at drive time, when you go to bed and in the morning. But it’s really clear here he established a testimony in Jacob he has appointed this law in Israel. This is what he a responsibility. He gave to the whole covenant community, that he gave to the whole congregation to pass on to the next generation. And so it’s a shared responsibility. It’s one that both moms and dads have, and that we have as

Matt Smethurst
church leaders. Yeah, one of the promises in our church’s covenant is that we will endeavor as the family of Christ to bring up the children under our care in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And of course, that is inspired not just by the passage you referenced in Deuteronomy six, as well as Psalm 78 but also a passage like Ephesians 64 fathers do not exasperate your children, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And the reason that’s a promise in our church covenant, not just a promise for parents, is because we understand it to be the responsibility of the whole church. Church to create a spiritual greenhouse in which kids can grow up and learn the things of God in a way that is going to hopefully we pray serve them spiritually for the rest of their lives. But I do think that, and I know this as a pastor, it can be difficult to think about the reality that children, they’re still under the authority of their parents, children in the home, which is a glorious and good thing. There’s also the authority of the Church. And so as we think about maybe different models, you have the family integrated model, kind of the family equipping model, I have to confess, I studied these years ago, when I was in seminary. There’s probably updated categories, but Jared, can you just chart for us the landscape a little bit? What are some of the most common models of thinking through parents church when it comes to forming kids, and which do you think is wisest?

Jared Kennedy
Yeah, I think probably the most common evangelical model is just a really programmatic model. I’ve always thought of it as as like silos. You know, the children’s ministry is doing one thing, the youth ministry is doing one thing, Sunday worship is doing another thing, your adult discipleship is doing another thing. And there’s not any kind of integrated thought sometimes about how they relate to one another. Think those who have seen that kind of culture isn’t the most helpful. Have proposed different models of how to how to have a more integrated and comprehensive approach to discipling the next generation. And so, you know one is what you describe the family integrated model, which is, don’t have children’s ministry, don’t have a youth ministry, whatever discipleship kind of training you’re doing, put all of the kids and families together for for that time. I do think there are times in the in this, in the life of a church and in the life of a global church, especially where that model is really appropriate. So you think of a brand new church plant like yours, Matt, that may not have you know, the space for much more than a nursery. You’re going to be thinking about, how do I minister to these families all together as a group. The philosophy that I’ve adopted is what you call the family equipping model and and that is to to think about how our children’s and our youth ministry and our adult discipleship ministry work together over the course of a lifespan, as you described it as a greenhouse earlier, to to have a sort of a comprehensive Christian education model that will see us over time, raise up kids in in the faith.

Ligon Duncan
So how did you relate to parents in in, you know, as you’re ministering to youth, how did you relate to parents

Jared Kennedy
in a couple of different ways? And I think, I think there’s three ways to equip parents. One would be to train them, second to be to involve them, and third to be to sometimes I say, equip but resource them. And so when you want to teach parents their responsibility before the Lord, how the gospel affects the way that they raise their children. Second, you want to involve them in the ministry. And so you want to invite them to serve in the children’s ministry and in in the youth ministry, and train them up as a part of the church’s ministry to the next generation. So involve them in it. And then thirdly, I think having having really good resources for their family, discipleship that you can resource them with, you know, sometimes that’s events like, like summer camp and youth ministry. Some with little children that’s, you know, storybook Bibles and and catechisms and those kind of things, those kind of resources that will help them do that. So I, I saw those three things, training, involving and equipping is one of the primary, big part of my responsibility in relating to parents. It’s good.

Matt Smethurst
Jared, how should pastors view themselves in relation to the children and youth in their church? Are in other words, are they pastors to the parents or to each individual member of the family talk about that dynamic.

Jared Kennedy
I think the book of Ephesians has helped me to see the answer is really both and it’s it’s both you are the pastor of individual kids and you’re the pastor of the family of the family unit. And I think especially when a child has come to faith, you have that pastoral responsibility not just over, not just to the heads of the household, but to the the family as a whole. And so I think that affects the way you do ministry in a number of ways. But Ephesians convinced me of this, because Paul writes to the saints, he talks about them being of one faith and one baptism. One in Christ. And then you get to the end of the book, and he starts addressing individual family members. He says, Husbands, wives, and then even he says, Children obey your parents in the Lord. And so he’s aware, in the way that he’s teaching, that they have relational responsibilities to one another. He’s aware that the father still has authority over the children, and yet he’s not afraid, as a pastor to address each one and to do discipleship with each member of the family as well. So I think, I think the answer for a pastor is really both and that, that you are shepherding family units, but you’re you’re aware of the dynamics of a Father’s authority over the children, and yet, at the same time, you have a responsibility to shepherd each individual who’s part of the church community as well.

Matt Smethurst
Yeah, and when it comes to children’s ministry in particular, we’ll talk about youth ministry in a moment. How can pastors encourage their members not to view serving in children’s ministry as just kind of a daycare service, but rather as a massive opportunity to plant gospel seeds that we pray will bear fruit for decades to come, not to mention a very practical service to parents to enable them to be listening to God’s word without distraction. I want to be clear, we love having children in the service so and there are different philosophies on that, but assuming, I mean, I think most pastors listening have some kind of children’s ministry available during some part of the worship service. How can we help our members think well, about what’s going on there with our kids?

Jared Kennedy
You know, when you’re a children’s pastor, probably the your number one job description is recruiting and training volunteers, and so you just spend a ton of time on the phone, getting volunteers to come, and then setting them up well. And then, you know, on at the end of the week, folks are sick and they’re not able to serve on Sunday,

Matt Smethurst
suspiciously sick late Saturday. That’s right, those

Jared Kennedy
guys, those kind of things happen on the week. They’re They’re designed to serve. And, um, my favorite class to recruit people to teach for were the two and three year olds class, because this amazing thing happens in a two and three year olds class. First of all, when a two year old first starts coming to that class, they might have two or 300 words in their vocabulary at most, and so they know Mom and Dad, and they know the name, whatever they call their sippy cup, and the names of their siblings and just some basic things. But by the time that child’s about ready to turn four and is leaving that class, they have 5000 words in their vocabulary. And so when you teach a two and three year olds class, you have this amazing opportunity to teach words like sin and God and gospel and prayer to a child at that age when it’s it’s formative, when they may be hearing those words for the very first time, or they may be hearing those words from an Adult besides mom and dad for the very first time, and you’re reinforcing those, those tiny concepts in a way when you’re rehearsing the little verses, when you’re singing the little songs, when you’re doing the little little craft activities, in a way that’s going to build a biblical foundation for that child’s soul, really, for the rest of their life. So I would, I would love inviting people into into that opportunity to say, look at who these children are. Look at where they are in their growth and development, and look at how formative this stage is for their faith development, for for the rest of their life. And encourage people to come in and be a part of that. And I think it’s that same vision for all of the children’s ministry to really hold that responsibility we have as the covenant people of God, to pass on the faith to the next generation, so that they will pass it on to the generation that comes after them. And and really that casting that vision, um, when you’re recruiting volunteers, you really want to recruit to that vision, vision as the first thing, there’s a responsibility we have as a church to the next generation that you get to be a part of seeing that mission go

Ligon Duncan
forward. How have you seen the culture around you impact what you have to do in ministry to youth and children and families in your church. I think oftentimes expectations, especially locally. I think certainly larger cultural expectations, but especially locally, can impact. Impact folks that are serving in this area, because the parents have a certain set of expectations as to what that ministry is going to look like. Have you handled that? Jared,

Jared Kennedy
yeah, that’s hard. We were talking a little bit before we started recording about how you’re not just managing the expectations of the parents and that are kind of come from that culture, but also from the elders on your elder team. And also then, as you know the kids, and you actually know the kind of discipleship they need as well. And so if you’ve got a large church that maybe has a more attractional kind of model as instead of a gospel centered model, there’s going to be a lot of desire. Hey, they have camps for kids. They have like these kind of to add those things on. And I don’t think that. I don’t think camp is a bad thing. I’m speaking at one this summer, like, you know, I think those kinds of things are really helpful as discipleship tools, but we’ve got to remember our first responsibility is to see kids grow in the word and and so to keep the word Central and what we’re doing to really know know those kids well enough to know their specific needs. You know, we can know that cell phones and, you know, anxiety and issues of sexuality are the big issues in the culture right now. I serve in an inner city church, and, you know, we’ve had kids that, like, are struggling to find their next meal to eat, and so that, like, if I’m just crafting my teaching and my ministry around those big cultural issues, and I’m not actually thinking about the kids that the Lord has given me to shepherd. Some of those parents are saying those things because they’re passionate about ministry to their kids. Some of them are consumers, and it’s easy to get a haughty dismissive attitude, but I think what you can do is invite be excited about their passion, and invite them into a conversation about how you’re you’re shaping the ministry God’s people have the Holy Spirit. And so I think as you can have confidence, as you invite folks in and under the word have have conversations about those things that win over their support over time to to that mission. But then I think also, yeah, being humble and learning from their perspectives yourself and but then at the end of the day, being really convictional on on sort of the principles you see in God’s word, and letting that drive your ministry first, and not what’s happening around the church

Ligon Duncan
when, when I was hired as a youth director while in seminary, the committee that hired me were the parents that had fired the previous youth director, at least, had started the groundswell to fire him, and they asked me, and They were in a situation where almost all of the young people middle school, but especially high school in the church, were going to other churches for youth activities. And so they wanted to know, what are you going to they’re saying this to me, what are you going to do? You know, to bring, to bring the kids back, you know, yeah, and, you know. And just like you, I thank you for saying how important it is not to have a haughty attitude toward I mean, these are their parents that God has given them. And I’m, you know, I’m, at that point, a 22 year old kid. What do I know? You know, I love Jesus, I love the Bible. And I really, I do want to love their kids and excited about the job that I get to have with them, but those are their parents, and I, I should have had more respect for that at that at that age, than I did sometimes in seminary, especially, you can think you know stuff, so I appreciate your notes there, but what I wish I had said to them, Jared, is that, you know, we don’t have some of the facilities and some of the things that that are attracting them to other places. But what I’m going to leverage for you and for them, and hopefully for the gospel, I’m going to leverage my relationships. I’m really going to care about your kids. I’m going to get to know them. I’m going to let them get to know me, I’m going to leverage that for you. And in this day and age where, you know, these kinds of things just dominate the world of our young people, the hunger for that kind of attention and relationship is really powerful. I think it’s even more powerful today than it was when I was doing youth work in the 1980s one warning that I did and once, once I became a pastor many years later, one warning that I did give to the parents was this, if, if my youth staff is doing a good job with your young people and showing that they care about them, that they care about Christ, about the. Gospel and about the scripture, and you give the impression to your children that you don’t care as much about that as my youth staff does. Two bad things will happen, or one of two bad things will happen. You know, one is that your children will receive your attitude towards those things as an indication that they’re not important. And they’ll they’ll view this as all a bunch of bunk or they’ll decide you’re not really a Christian. And that’s not what we’re trying to that’s not what we’re trying to do in the youth work, we’re trying to supplement, compliment, amplify your ministry to your own children’s souls and, and that means you’ve got to care about ministry to your children’s souls. You got to care about the gospel. You got to care about the Bible. You got to care about them growing in grace and and we’re then hopefully supplementing and a practical way, if I can give a testimony real quick, here I am a pastor. I hope I do care about the gospel. I do care about the the Bible. I see my son has written, and this is when my son is, like, 1415, years old. He’s written all these questions on the church bulletin, and I couldn’t see him until he went out of the room, and then I kind of ran over to the bulletin Look at him. And they’re really basic kind of questions that I bet you got from from people in youth ministry, Jared, that Matt has gotten from people in ministry, but he’s getting ready to go talk to these with Greg Meyer, who works on the youth staff, not with his dad. With Greg Meyer, and a part of me was, wait, what am I chopped liver? You can’t talk with me about that. But I realized it was especially with me as a pastor. It was so much less threatening for him to talk about those things with Greg Meyer, who I had taught in class in seminary, in any answer, he’s going to give you. Jennings, hopefully I’ve had something to say informing his opinions about what the Bible teaches about that. But what I had to do is pull back and realize that’s a blessing that that my son, amen, knows Greg trusts him to teach him what the Bible says. You know, he was able to ask him some things that I think he would have felt embarrassed to ask me, and that’s exactly how it ought to work, right? Greg’s not replacing me, but he’s drawing some things out of my son that my son might have been afraid to ask me, and that’s a wonderful picture of how things can be with with folks in the church that are focused on our youth and our children, helping our parents be better, parents, supplementing and amplifying their ministry to their children.

Jared Kennedy
I i Isn’t a beautiful to you. I mean, my oldest is 20 years old, and she came back and gave a testimony at our youth group a couple of weeks ago, and she was sharing these things that have become more real for her in college, and she says during the testimony. So you know, these are things that Miss Amy, who is one of our youth leaders talk taught me. These are things that Samantha Chang who taught me. And I was like, yeah, these are things your dad taught you, too, but, but you heard them. You You heard them from that third voice, you know. And I think that’s, I think it’s a really beautiful thing, how the Lord uses the church to cultivate that faith in our kids.

Matt Smethurst
She’s quoting, crediting CS Lewis, who was just quoting Jared Kennedy. So, no, I have the same experience like you mentioned, like the things that kids will write in the bulletins, the questions they’ll ask you in the fall of 2024 I preached through judges, which was a wild ride, and so the questions I received from kids during that series were often really thoughtful. A lot of them I didn’t know the answers to. But also, the illustrations that they had kind of sketched were a little more gory than normal. And speaking of judges, I think another good text pastors that you can use to help train your parents and give them a vision for the kind of discipleship of their children that they’re at the front lines of is is judges, 210, where the the author writes, after Joshua’s whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who neither knew the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. And we can’t go back in time and climb into the minds of Joshua’s generation and observe. Of their parenting, but we can look at the fruit, and it’s a damning indictment. And here’s what struck me when I was preaching through this who were these parents who had abdicated their responsibility? It was the very generation who had taken the land, who had seen the mighty, outstretched hand of God and vanquishing their foes, who had even at one point seen the sun stand still in the sky. And of course, their parents, the grandparents of this generation, who were the ones who got to walk through walls of water as God ushered them out of slavery in Egypt. And so this sacred responsibility of passing on and passing down the faith through the generations, just like the gospel. You know, as it’s been said, One generation teaches the gospel, but if the next generation merely assumes the gospel, the third generation will lose it. And so we have such an opportunity with the parents in our churches, and I think in particular, with the dads. Now we understand that not every family is going to have an intact household with with two parents and a believing father, but where that is the case, I think we have the job of as pastors, of really pressing on fathers in our church the responsibility not just to delegate everything to the youth leader or to mom, but to really view themselves as being on the front lines of forming and shaping their kids spiritually and like I was happy that you mentioned you asked Jared about how the culture factors into this. I do think knowing that our children are being formed by cultural narratives, we have to engage in counter formation, counter catechesis. Our friend Kevin wax and Thomas West have a 50 question catechism coming out summer of 2025 the gospel way. Catechism, 50 truths that take on the world that are is just a simple way of helping children not just be formed by biblical truths, but counter formed in a world of expressive individualism.

Ligon Duncan
Amen. What are

Matt Smethurst
some ways, not every church is going to be able to have a paid youth pastor, but oftentimes, there’s at least a volunteer who’s helping to coordinate and oversee ministry to teens. What are ways that pastors can think well, can speak well of what youth ministry ought to be in the life of the church and serve those who are helping to lead it?

Jared Kennedy
Yeah, I think the first thing I would do if I were a church planning pastor, and we’re small church, and we don’t have a youth group, but, but we’re thinking we may be at a place where we have one in the future. I spend some time reading about youth ministry. I think Cameron Cole and John Nielsen’s book, gospel centered youth ministry. The books by John Parrott, Timothy Paul Jones is another good author to read those books about youth ministry, so you’re aware of the philosophies that are out there, and think about that. And then I think as you’re reading that, don’t read those books by yourself, read those books with the parents of the students who are in your church, and so pull those dads that are in your purview around you and kind of read about what it looks like to disciple youth together. And you might want to read a book about some of the cultural things, a Jonathan Haidt book or a gene twinge book on generations, or or Abigail Shriver’s book, something something like that. Or,

Matt Smethurst
good night, bro, you almost speak as if your day job is as a managing

Jared Kennedy
is reading books and curriculum

Ligon Duncan
to jump in. He mentioned John parrot. John writes for reformed youth ministries, R, Y, M, and they do have a ton of resources, including stuff online like this that also addresses the sort of cultural narratives as well as gives you curricular ideas.

Jared Kennedy
Yeah. And I think others in our stream would be Cameron Cole and rooted youth ministries and in the Baptist dream Mike McGarry group, which is called youth pastor, theologian. Yes, I’m a reader. That’s my job, but I found it really helpful to read those kinds of materials with other men who care about this. And you’re not going to read them all in a week, but you know, spend six or eight months working through a book and asking questions. And I think what the Spirit stirs in relationships like that are the ways to draw near to kids and say, Oh no, we’re not going to have a giant youth group, but we can. We can have a Bible study in a couple’s home. Um, there are one or two kids here who need someone to come alongside as a as a mentor and a discipler in their in their life. And here’s some principles to think about, some questions to ask as that’s happening. And I think resources like that get us, get us thinking, um, yeah, during my oldest high school years, we read Rebecca McLaughlin’s the secular creed together, little studies like that. Like I think just are, are tremendously helpful for helping wrestle through, you know, the things that kids face out in the world today.

Matt Smethurst
Let’s talk now about vetting volunteers who should be leading in youth ministry and who shouldn’t?

Jared Kennedy
Yeah, I always like to open Matthew 18 when I think about this, because this was, you know, Jesus and his young trainee church planters who were asking about who wants to be greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And Jesus takes a child, and he puts it among them and says, If you want to be great in the kingdom of heaven, become like a child. And then he gives them an immediate application for that which is, welcome that child. And when you welcome them, you welcome me. And so I think the first qualification for youth ministry leaders humility, the kind of person, whether it’s children’s ministry or youth ministry, the kind of person who takes the posture of a child who’s dependent on the Lord, and that’s evident in their character. As you keep reading that passage, Jesus says, whoever welcomes one such child in my name, welcomes me. And then he says, if he, if anyone, causes one of these little ones, those who believe in me, to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world. Because of the things that cause people to stumble, Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come. And then he turns it from Woe to the world to he points right at his disciples and says, If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. This is the passage that has probably most formed my convictions about child protection and the protection of our youth. It’s it says that for those who are immature in their faith, or for those who really are our children and and youth in the faith, that the way that there are things that can happen to them that would be stumbling blocks for them being able to believe in the future. And so he’s thinking about the kinds of things that hands and feet do that would sexually hurt a kid or would physically hurt a kid, and that those things would be a stumbling block those things that happen when faith is immature to that faith maturing in the future. And so he gives this severe warning, one of the most severe warnings in the New Testament, put a millstone around your neck, and then would be cast in in the depths of the sea. So there’s a, there’s a harsh, severe warning there. So the the kind of person that I want serving in a youth ministry is the kind of person that’s humble, but then the kind of person that’s self aware, not just of all the sins that happen out there in the world, but the sins who that happen in his own heart or her own heart, yeah, and it’s able to look at at those ways that they’re tempted by pride, uh, tempted by by lust, and is honest and is is repenting of those things. And so we could talk about background check and vetting and and those kinds of um safety protocols that you can put in place to help you guard against those things. But the first thing I’m looking for in a youth or children’s ministry leader is character, character that embraces and embodies that kind of humility that Jesus talks about in that passage.

Matt Smethurst
That’s a good word that reminded me of something j, c, Ryle said about that passage. He said, Let us learn from these verses that the Lord Jesus cares tenderly for the souls of children. It is probable that Satan especially hates them. It is certain that Jesus especially loves them. So good young as they are, they are not beneath his attention. The mighty heart of his has room for the baby in his cradle, as well as the king upon the throne. He regards each one as possessing within its little body a soul that will outlive the pyramids of Egypt and see Sun and Moon quenched at the last day. Wow. Amen. One thing I’ve said to the kids in our church before is many of you know the experience of being at an amusement park and not being tall enough to. To ride a certain ride. But when it comes to entrance into heaven, it’s it’s the opposite. We have to be spiritually small enough to enter, spiritually humble enough and understanding our need for Christ alone. Jared, we’ve talked vetting volunteers. Let’s talk vetting, selecting curriculum, whether for children’s ministry or youth ministry, any specific recommendations for how pastors churches can think well about this?

Jared Kennedy
Well, I think the first thing I would say, and I’m just going to put all my cards on the table as a Congregationalist, but that don’t do that by yourself, like, like, put a team of people together who can help you think about the curriculum. And so while I think it is a pastoral responsibility, I think decisions about the the teaching plan and the overall Christian education plan for for a church, or best made in community, usually by by the elders, ultimately, but I think also putting together a team of people, a committee of people from the congregation, who can help that those things. So that’s the first thing I would say. And then think, I think you want to actually think about what your goals for your ministry are, and what your goals and and teaching are. And so you want to honestly put together that thought of like, where are we heading in our Christian education plan first, even before you you buy the curriculum to fit that. And so Alan curry, who was Christian education professor at Erskine College, many years ago, has this great illustration of how to think about putting together that plan, where he talked about the bead crafts that kids make in their children’s ministry lessons. And he said when kids are first learning about the gospel, they’re just playing with the little beads they have the individual memory versus the Catechism questions, the the doctrines and the stories, and sometimes they’ve learned even to memorize them and and say those back. But they really don’t have an understanding of how those fit together. But in those early years, you want to introduce them to those things. As they get older, you want to see them learn how to fit those things together in a way that you know, all the yellow beads here, all the round beats here, all the all the green and square beads here, the same way that a kid might sort out those beads when they’re making their craft. You want to understand this is part of systematics, and this is part of the biblical storyline. And this is, you know, be able to sort those things out in a category way for kids. And I think that’s really good for the early elementary years. Dorothy Sayers said, by the end of in Lost tools of learning, by the end of fifth grade, a kid should know the story of God and man in outline, as well as the apostles, creed, the 10 Commandments and the Lord’s Prayer. And so she’s basically just going back to her Anglican catechism and saying, here are the the the basic concepts that kids should learn in these early elementary years. I’m really at beyond those years. You’re looking at shepherding their heart. What curry said was, you want to show them how all these beats fit together, and that the string that holds them together is the story of redemption, is the story of Jesus. And then you want to draw them into really believing in Jesus as the one who holds that that story together, so that finally, by youth group years you’re asking them to wear that necklace around their neck and say, This is mine. I you know? So just like a kid when they make a craft like that, comes home after Sunday school and says, you know, this is, this is the necklace I made. Who wants to show Mom, mom and dad in the same way kids in youth group, we want them to own this faith in a way that’s theirs and belongs to them. So I’ve always loved that vision of a Christian education plan, knowing your individual church, your denominational distinctives, you know, the mission distinctives of your local church are going to shape those different things. But before you start shopping for curriculum, I think it’s important to know kind of your thoughts about how that plan gets put together. And then I would say, know your confessional standards, you know, know your your church’s doctrinal statement, and assess that curriculum against that doctrinal statement, assess it based on that Christian education plan and how it fits within that when I first started in children’s ministry in the in the early 2000s there weren’t a ton of great gospel centered resources out there, but they have just exploded over the last number of years, publishers like crossway and Kevin De Young’s biggest. Story curriculum publishers like new growth press and their different curriculum lines, great commission publications has always done great materials that are more Presbyterian distinctive. So I think those resources, project and lifeways, the Gospel project has been just a great one. I don’t know why I went PCA before I went SBC as a Baptist, maybe I should resave

Ligon Duncan
your secret. Safe with us,

Matt Smethurst
but we don’t edit anything out. Everyday pastor making,

Jared Kennedy
I’m just gonna talk about the gospel project right now. So, you know the gospel project curriculum that, when Trevin wax worked there, he had a lot developed a lot of the vision for that curriculum, which is has actually been the curriculum that our local church has used for many, many years. And I think there are great curriculums available out there, but I begin there with your doctrine, your local church context, and that education plan and thinking through what fits the need of your context specifically.

Matt Smethurst
I think that’s a good word. There’s flexibility, Pastor, based on your context. But what we would say is non negotiable, is that the material, the curriculum, is not just behavioristic. We’re not just trying to raise well adjusted, upstanding citizens. We’re trying to raise people who love the Lord Jesus Christ, so we want curriculum that is Bible saturated, gospel centered, that weaves the story together as one coherent whole and shows not just the truth of the Bible but also the beauty and the compelling glory of a life found in Christ. Jesus. Jared, feel free to draw from your own family’s experience here. But how can pastors and youth leaders care for and support families that have children with special needs?

Jared Kennedy
Yeah, thanks for asking that, Matt. You know this is part of minding your relationship and how we got to know each other in some ways. But our our middle daughter, our 18 year old, Lucy, was diagnosed with severe autism when when she was three, and at that point, my wife and I really kind of went on a journey of both learning how to care for her ourselves, but also thinking through I’m got responsibility for a children’s ministry and and soon a family ministry at our local church. How? How do we think about caring for kids with unique needs as a local church? And I think the most important thing is to listen well to those families. Often, it can be a lot of pressure. There’s unique suffering that comes with caretaking, a desire, I think, especially when you first get a diagnosis, to like, what can I do to fix this and make sure it gets better really quick, you know? And even when that’s not the prognosis, you know, even when this is a lifelong disability, I think the parents feel, can feel that kind of pressure, and so I think, to draw near and listen to them, to recognize that the church needs to do this for me, kind of, kind of, kind of feeling sometimes, that, that that comes from a place of a lot of passion and love for their child and and and they really need care, even if You can’t provide all of the care in the ways they want. They want care. So first thing, I think, is to listen each child has different needs, like they really are unique, and so the ways that you want to adjust and care for those children are going to be really unique for the child, like a lot of delayed development. You can simply move a child back an age group or two more severe disabilities require, you know, more severe care. There have been times when we’ve had a nurse attend alongside children in our ministry because of the kind of of care they they needed in that context. And there have been, yeah, times where we’ve been able just to assign a buddy to come alongside the child in the ministry and draw them in. I think it’s also really easy for parents to feel like they need to, they need to be the person in charge of doing all of these things for their child. And I think one of the things we must do as a church is this is a really unique opportunity as any experience of suffering or experience of weaknesses to show to model. Um, just how much grace shows us that we need each other. And I think some of the really beautiful things that happened in in our family situation is that we found a group of young women that came to our house for every weekday afternoon for like, five or six years, and did like a behavioral therapy program with with our daughter, Megan smithhurst was one of those, those women who came in and served us in our in our home, there was a young woman by the name of Kelly who basically, kind of launched the ministry at our church for the kids with special needs. We learned how to trust by learning to trust the church in some ways, both the our specific local church and the broader church. We learned to trust that God had a care plan for for our child too. By seeing his His grace and His love through his people, we began to see His grace and His love for this, this suffering that was in our life as well. And I think the last thing I would just say is that God has uniquely gifted every member of his body and and every gift is indispensable, not every, every child with unique needs is is necessarily going to be a believer. Um, but for those who are involved in the community and and have the ability to serve and give back to the community too, not just thinking about how you can adjust your offerings for that child or youth, but thinking about how you can draw that child or youth into the ministry of the church. Maybe that’s passing out bulletins on Sunday morning, like, you know, maybe that’s being a greeter. Maybe that’s, you know, helping my child just likes to do really detailed work and so, like just helping sort and organize things that that kind of thing. I think do inviting that person to use their gifts is one of the ways to show the way that God has, has, has dignified them as a unique individual, and yeah, the way the Lord builds His church often in ways that are surprising, that we’re an unexpected for us as well.

Ligon Duncan
I’d throw in as a resource. Matt Stephanie hubach has has written a book called same lake, different different Boat, boat, yeah, where she sort of addresses some of these things. And she’s also written a book called abiding in God’s presence, about parenting and disabilities. And there’s some resources there. Also. Ashley Belknap is the executive director of engaging disabilities that has some gospel center resource, gospel centered resources for local churches that are trying to help support parents in the congregation, and then help the congregation, support those parents and young people in the congregation with special needs, as well as other types of disabilities.

Jared Kennedy
I’d name two more. There’s a new book coming out across way this summer called accessible church, by Sandra peoples, and she’s with the Southern Baptist of Texas convention and has has led a lot of help with that convention, with special needs ministry for many years. And then the other, the other resource I would name is see Jesus ministries Paul Miller, Miller’s ministry. Paul has a daughter, probably a decade older than mine, with a very similar disability and the curriculum they’ve developed for young young people with disabilities as well. It’s just really wonderful.

Matt Smethurst
And I’ll just while we’re at it, add one more. Andrew Wilson, wonderful writer, we’d commence a lot of his books. He and his wife Rachel wrote the life we never expected, hopeful reflections on the challenges of parenting children with special needs. Well, as we wrap up this episode, I’m reminded of something John Newton said in one of his letters, just a simple passing observation, that Satan hates seeing any persons, but especially young persons, walking closely with God, and to that end, we want to pray that our churches would be places that Satan hates because there’s all kinds of young people walking closely with God in that greenhouse that the local church can be at its very best as we create an environment for children to learn the things of God And to see the beauty of the gospel embodied in a congregation of people who love them well. Thank you for listening to this episode of the everyday pastor. We hope it’s been helpful to you. We’ll probably at some point do a part two on children and youth ministry, because it’s such a huge topic. So feel free to. Leave a comment or send us some feedback at tgc.org/everyday, Pastor, so we can know what would help you better minister to the youth and children’s leaders in your church. You.