Front Row Seat: Engaging God’s Calling and People’s Expectations

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Kari Olson
Well, once I was a young pastor’s wife, and a gentleman pulled me aside and said, Hey, Kari, I’ve been meaning to schedule an appointment with your husband, Tom, I have some questions to ask him. But you know what? You’re a pastor’s wife. Why don’t I just ask you? And he proceeded to ask me some questions. One of them being, what do you think of infant baptism? And I said, Oh, well, you know what? I don’t, I don’t think about it. You are definitely going to want to schedule that appointment with my husband. Oh, I walked away thinking, is this? Is this what I’m supposed to do? Am I supposed to know some of these things right off the top of my head, when people asked me, so I jokingly said to Tom quick, tell me everything I need to know about baptism, the Scriptures, the history, infant baptism, believers baptism, people expect me to know, Well, I wasn’t a pastor’s wife long before I started to feel the weight of other people’s expectations on me. But you know, what, also the weight of my own expectations on myself, things like that, like I should have the same seminary education as my husband. Even things like on Sunday mornings, I should be by Tom side, but also serving where there’s a need. I should probably be at the church, every holiday and special event. But also with my family out of state. I should definitely be available for that long winded conversation. But never leave my children unattended, running around the church. And I should always look nice, but never wear red lipstick.

Kristen Wetherell
I love all those examples. Those expectations. They’re so real, or at least they feel so real. Right? Yeah. And the question is, how do we as pastors wives sort through them? How do we discern what God is calling us to what God expects of us? Yeah, and perhaps what people are putting on us or what like you mentioned what we’re putting on ourselves as pastors wives. Well, this is the topic of our conversation today, on today’s episode of front row seats, and these are conversations of encouragement by pastors wives, for pastors, wives. And Carrie, you and I are personally so excited to be here because we’re pastors wives, and we need encouragement. We are at the same church, the orchard in the Chicagoland area to different locations of that church. And our husbands are actually good friends as well. And they’ve been in ministry together for many years. And you and I have had plenty of conversations on various topics related to what it means to be a pastor’s wife, and to follow God faithfully in that. So that’s what this whole series is about. And we are hopeful to be encouraged. We’re hopeful to encourage the listeners.

And we’re going to kick off front row seat today with our lovely guest Janee ortlund. We are so happy that you’re here. Danny Janney is married to Ray and they have been in ministry for over 40 years. They serve together and manual church in Nashville, Tennessee. Jenny is also an author and I just finished your book Janee. It’s a wonderful book with a title that makes me laugh every time I read it help. I am married to my pastor. I just ate this book up, I felt like the chapters were incredibly relevant. And, you know, they’re they’re short, they’re accessible. And they are deeply encouraging. So thank you for writing that book. Janie, it really, really was helpful to me. And we’re so happy to have you here.

Jani Ortlund
Well, I am so glad to be here. And I love you already, Kristen, because youread my book. Oh. I love you to I’ll tell you a funny story about that title. As I was talking it through with Ray and our agent and some publishers. One of them suggested, oh, why don’t we entitle it out? I’m sleeping with my pastor. Ray said no, we’re not going to use that help on marriage. My pastor is engaging.

Kari Olson
That may be a little much.

Jani Ortlund
A little too much. I don’t think you’d have me on if that had been the title. Oh my goodness. But thank you. I was privileged to write that book. And Ray and I have been in ministry for several decades. Together. We praise God for that we have. We’ve been married 51 years now and have four marriage children and off 15 grandchildren here on earth one way the mess up in heaven will hope. And we’re so grateful that the Lord has given us the life of ministry together. It is wonderful to be able to look back on 51 years of ministry together and know that the Lord has seen you through him all the praise, there’s no way Ray and I could have done this on our own.

Kristen Wetherell
Amen. It’s so wonderful for us to to look at you and to say, you know, because we’re kind of just starting out, I don’t know, Carrie, you’re further along than I am. But it’s such an 18 years. Yeah, it’s such an encouragement.

Kari Olson
It is such an encouragement. And we were so thankful for you to bring some of that expertise, you know, to I know, maybe you wouldn’t say that, but that we’re going to talk about that today. But it’s still it is experienced, it is expertise that we can learn from. So. So would you help us think this through today, our topic is, you know, the calling of pastors wives calling. That’s an intimidating and sometimes loaded word. So we would love your thoughts on that.

What is the calling of a pastor’s wife?

Jani Ortlund
Oh, Kari, that’s such a good question. I think pastors wives have been trying to answer that for centuries. And I haven’t come up with any better answer than has been found. yet. I don’t find any passage in scripture that speak specifically to a pastor’s wife, calling, I find plenty of scriptures that talk to why, what is our calling as a wife. And so through the years, I’ve had to remind myself that my first and primary calling is to the Lord Jesus Christ. And my second calling is to my husband, no matter where he is certain if he’s a plumber, or a ditch digger, or a dentist or a pastor or a professor, or retired, whatever his calling is, by virtue of the fact that I promised God, I would love him until our final breath together. When one of us goes to see Jesus, because of that, my calling is to love him. So I would love to encourage any pastor’s wife who’s listening to not camp too much too long, too deeply. Don’t be tormented by the thought, I’ve got to discover my call, I’ve got to figure out how to live this life. Go to the word go to the one who asked you to marry that man, and ask you to promise him that you would live with Him forever until death, do you part and asked you to promise that you would help him and encourage him all the things that a godly wife wants to do? That that’s our our great calling, otherwise, that word can feel intimidating, rather than intimate. I mean, if someone is going to call me that, that’s a direct link. And I want that to be an intimate link. Lord, I want it to be between you and me. And I want it to feel good tomorrow.

Kari Olson
That’s, that’s so good. And it kind of answers one of our thoughts. One of our questions, you know, is a pastor’s wife calling different than any than the calling on other Christian women or other daughters of the King? And you answered that a little bit. But do you have any thoughts on that?

Jani Ortlund
I do, Kari, I do, I could tell this little story. We’ve been in pastoral ministry for 51 years, but nine of those years, Ray left the pastorate to be a professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Devon. And while he was still ministering in churches preaching on Sundays, he was not shepherding the flock and it was it was a very different lifestyle for our family. So my calling was different during those days, I wasn’t as closely connected to the women in our church. I I actually had to get a job out outside of our home in order to help us make it as Ray was a professor, and we had moved to very expensive part of America and weren’t able to make it on his professor. Tell me, my calling was different there. And I sensed that I was called at that point, too. To portray as a professor and to minister to student wives, and to minister to my husband by helping bring in a second. So there is a unique column. But it doesn’t need to be scary. It’s very difficult to be strongly committed to the man God has called you to, and to follow him wherever God calls him.

Kristen Wetherell
Yes. Yeah, I appreciate that reminder, it doesn’t need to be scary. Because it can feel scary, you know, you, it’s easy to feel like the spotlight is on you. And in a sense, people are watching you are in a position of influence. That is different that looks different than other people’s positions, or roles. But it doesn’t need to be scary. So I appreciate that. In light of that, what, how would you encourage us to look for certain choice? What are some joys that our eyes can and should be open to seeing?

Jani Ortlund
Thank you for that great question. There are so many joys. Think of it you get to hear your favorite preacher. You don’t have to travel far. Whatever there is, you get to look at his handsome face while he’s preaching. And you get to see him up close. You get to see him living what he preaches in a way that no other person on earth does too. What a privilege. You can encourage him in that way. You, you get to enter as a pastor’s wife, I found out it’s able to enter into other people’s lives more fully. Whether it was during the time of sorrow, maybe during an illness or death or a time of great joy, birth of a baby of baptism, a conversion experience. There are so many joys in it. What about YouTube? Do you tell tell me some of the joys you get?

Kristen Wetherell
Oh, she’s throwing the question back at us, Kari!

Kari Olson
Wait a minute! I would agree. I thought that was such a fun thing that the first moment you said, you know, you get to hear your favorite pastor. I remember sitting in the front row, watching time listening to him speak and you know, the spirit really convicting me through his message and just thinking, well, he’s gonna be my pastor for the rest of my life. You know, I’m so thankful that the Spirit will, will speak to me through his sermons and his work that he did throughout the week, in preparation for our congregation that I am a part of, you know, that was such a joy. I totally agree with you on that.

Kristen Wetherell
Yeah. You know, a girl from our church recently wrote my daughter who’s five, five years old, a note and said, Joanna, thank you, thank you for sharing your daddy with us on Sundays. And he’s a he’s a good. He’s a he’s a shepherd to so many people, you know, moms and dads like me, and grandparents and boys and girls, like you, you know. And I just I loved her perspective, because she was helping my daughter, who I’m sure isn’t thinking too much about it quite yet. But she’s helping my young daughter to think about the joys of being a family in ministry. And that’s not our primary identity. Like you were saying, Jani, it’s to follow God, it’s to seek His face first and foremost. And yet, he’s called us to this role at this time in place, right? So I, you know, I just loved that because I thought, Oh, me too. Like I get to I get to share my Brad with our congregation. And and then they in turn are blessed by that. So that’s been a real joy. And I appreciate it that perspective.

Jani Ortlund
I think sometimes. I don’t know if we want to talk about this later with our children. But, but sometimes that sharing can be hard. I’m sure pastors wives because I didn’t realize how much time it would take out of raise heart and body and intellect. psyche, every bit of him. I didn’t realize how much effort it would take for him to serve a flock of sheep. And I didn’t realize the long night. Elders meetings, hospital visits. Working on some I didn’t realize how Saturdays are different for a pastor’s family versus when we were at the seminary when Ray was put That’s our Saturday look different than they did at sea this past me. And so I, I’m grateful for that woman in your church, Kristen, who saw your daughter, and acknowledged her and her daddy says beautiful.

Kristen Wetherell
Yeah, it really is. And that’s, that’s helpful to acknowledge too is that there are not only enjoys, but there are challenges. And so how would you counsel us Janee? About? I don’t know, any temptations associated with those challenges, because there are many

Jani Ortlund
Oh, boy. Challenges. We beat ourselves up with them, don’t we? They come at us and and say, How can I do this, I just got over that. And I don’t like challenges. I just like is great tea and chocolate and a good book to read, you know, that kind of life. But ultimately, that’s not the life I want to look back on. I really want to learn how to embrace the challenges that come and I think pastors wives do bear a unique set of challenges. One of the ones I faced early on, and I’m so grateful that you two are friends and you’re serving together, you have each other, I was alone.

And I think many pastors wives struggle with loneliness. Sunday’s are lonely for them, they usually get the kids up alone, get them to church into their classes alone, oftentimes, they sit alone, they might sit up front, in the front row stage, with their husband during the singing, but then he’s up there preaching and so loneliness can that was a challenge for me. And right along with that, I don’t know if you felt this beyond your own friendship. But friendships were a challenge for me. Ray had the staff. Even in a small church, there was at least one other person on staff, usually two or three, he would have elders, and usually meet with them once every other week, or once a month. But I didn’t have that I was home with the children. And I was lonely and hungry for friendship. And part of the difficulty was, I didn’t know who I could be friends, because I couldn’t be totally open. I couldn’t share all that I knew. I’m not going to share what went on in the elders meeting that Ray has entrusted to my heart. I’m not going to share the counseling session we have at this young couple over their marriage problems that I have promised to pray for, or that diagnosis of cancer that another members you can’t share. You bear these alone, and friendship wants to share. So that was hard for me with the challenge, as well as the challenge of the goodbyes. Especially in church planting, I don’t know how many of our listeners are church planters. But oftentimes, it’s your closest friends you plant which ones you trust the most. And often times they’re the ones that have over the next five to 10 years ball away, either get called away to another church or lead because of an unpopular decision or, and as a pastor’s wife, you don’t always know the reason. They’re kept for me. And that’s fine. We don’t need to know everything to respond properly in in Christ. But I just have to say friendships, and goodbyes have been hard and blander. That’s a huge challenge for pastors wives, maybe we can talk about that a little bit later.

But I was I just wanted to say those challenges never surprise Jesus is not taken aback by them. He doesn’t say, Oh, wow, where did that come from? We think that we can bring that shot that surprise to the Lord, and He will tenderly care for it. Could I take a minute and just share something that’s been a help for me here from Scripture?

Mark chapter 14. Starting it, I think it’s like verse three, there’s a paragraph there verses three through eight or three through nine. It’s where Jesus is anointed and Bethany before his death and resurrection. And the Gospel of John and cross referencing it seems to indicate it may airy who, who does this anointing busts? This woman comes in Mark, chapter 14 comes to Jesus and breaks this very expensive alabaster flaps and pours it over over his head and his feet and wipes his feet with her hair. I mean, she got him close to Jesus. She was, she made her way. If you think about the men sitting at the table leaning on their elbows, their heads at the table, she had the elbow her way up to get to his head, to pour it on. And at his feet down. She had to get in there. She broke the the flask poured it over him. And what did the disciples do? They point the finger. And they become indignant and say, look at that waste that could have been sold and given to the poor.

And what does Jesus do? He defends her. He said, Leave her alone. What she has done, it’s a beautiful thing to me. I love the Lord’s defense of Mary’s sacrifice. It was a sacrifice. The Bible says it costs nearly a year’s wages. Think of what you make in your your husband, your family income for nearly a year. Think of pointing that out? In one short sacrifice. Yeah. And And Jesus says it’s beautiful. And this, these are the words that have really helped me Carrie and Chris, maybe they’ll help our listeners. He says, I think it’s in verse eight. Bit Well, up above, he says she’s done a beautiful thing to me. For me and Ben, he says she has done what she could. Those six persons. I love that when I feel challenged in module as a pastor’s wife, I mean, even today, when we finish this episode, I’ll get off and text myself for not holding the package correctly or, you know, whatever. You know how we do. We judge ourselves. Because we feel we haven’t met the challenge. Jesus never points that. He never said, Oh, I wish you would have or you should have or you could have. He says no river alone. Terrible to me. You know what she did? She did what she could.

So, Ray and I will often ask each other after something. We’ve done something they’ll ask me after our chance together today. Well, how do you think it went? And I’ll often Well, this was good this often. He’ll say, Did you do what you could? And I’ll have to answer. I did what I could. And I would love for each pastor’s wife to put those six words in different places in her house, her car, her Bible, the mirror where she puts on her lipstick or brushes, their teeth, if she doesn’t wear whatever is done what she could from work 14 Eight, that helps me meet the challenges.

Kari Olson
I’m so thankful for that story. Because we need we need to go to scripture for those the most encouragement, you know we other people’s their their opinion of us will will change possibly over time ebb and flow. They’ll move away like you said, but to have God’s encouragement, it’s just this ever deep well of living water over our soul. So do you have other other verses that over the years have kept you motivated and meditative, like that story like like you just showed us other other verses that you’ve gone to?

Jani Ortlund
Oh, my Yes, I really believe and I teach the ladies, I disciple that meditation is an important part of our walk with the Lord. I heard a pastor say once, and I can’t pull his name up right now. He said, If you know how to worry, you know how to meditate. I am a champion. Yes, you’ve got that, don’t you? I understand because I do too. And so I’ve encouraged myself through the years. It’s been very helpful when I’m facing a challenge that we’ve been discussing, to ask the Lord to give me a verse, or even a phrase from a verse that I can make my mental wallpaper over the next few months that I can claim Do I can turn to I think of Psalm 62. One in the NIV. I was back in the NIV, before the ESV came out. And I memorized it this way.

Psalm 62. One in the NIV says, My soul finds rest in God alone. I, because I realized, why have my folks are anxious, why am I playing this over and over again in my mind? I have an opportunity to find rest in God alone. So when I wasn’t finding rest, I had to ask myself, Where am I going from my soul? Lord, bring me back to you Psalm 62.

One or I think, the verse I’m meditating on these days, it’s from First Samuel 1224, where Samuel talks is his final goodbye addressed to the children of Israel before they get the Kings a demand. And he says in First Samuel 1224, only it’s fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart now just ended there. I’d say okay, and he’s going to say, because you’re going to heaven, you’ll get your reward. Just keep working. You know, like a Paul press on, sometimes I need that. But what Samuel says is, look back for consider this is his motivation for STEM of torque when he bore theory Him, serve Him faithfully, for consider what great things he has done for you. So, you know, I can go all the way back to my mom bringing us she wasn’t a Christian, but bringing us to a Sunday school where I came to faith in Christ, or Ray ortlund, choosing me out of all the young girls who had a crush on him, choosing me letting me be his wife, or, you know, allowing me to bear children more, whatever be on this podcast. Best of all, consider. Consider what great things he’s done for you. That verse has helped me okay, here’s what we have time for one more.

Colossians three, I probably should turn there just to make sure I get it right. I’ve been working on memorizing Clawson but Colossians three, starting at verse 23. He’s talking to bondservants can we are we consider ourselves servants of the Lord, don’t we? Yes. And he says, Let’s see whatever you do work heartily as to the Lord and not to men, not for men. Knowing that from the Lord, you will receive the inheritance as you reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. Now, I often stopped there. But as a pastor’s wife, with some of the hurts I’ve born and my husband has born, I’m happy to go on to this next verse, which says for this is in light of service for the wrongdoer will be be paid back for the wrongs he has done. And there is no no partiality. That’s a comfort to me.

Kari Olson
That’s a warning.

Jani Ortlund
Yeah, I say, Okay work heartily. And don’t worry about anybody else’s wrongdoing. You’ve got enough to work on, you’re at home. Just stay right here and work heartily. serving the Lord, you’re serving him. Why don’t grab lunch?

Kari Olson
Oh, thank you for that.

Kristen Wetherell
And that’s me. And that that is such a needed reminder. Work heartily as for the Lord and not for men, which can get a little confusing in ministry, because you are in a sense working for men, right? You We will gladly spend and be spent for the sake of the gospel. But at the core, we are working for the Lord, who who has the final word, the final say it is the Lord Christ. And that that is a helpful warning and a helpful reminder at the end. So I’m going to topic Jani, How would you counsel us when it feels like people’s expectations are a hard burden to bear? How can we be sure we’re responding to them in a way that reflects Jesus in a wise way? Because this can be hard.

Jani Ortlund
It can be very hard. Um, when I feel someone is disappointed in me, and it becomes a burden big because they have an expectation of me that either I didn’t understand beforehand, or I just couldn’t see. The most helpful question for me to ask is why this is such a burden to me? Why is it such a shock to me that I’m a sinner? Mm. Why is it so hard for me that I’m not perfect? Why can’t I be real? This is something that’s become more and more important to Ray and me in our latter years of ministry, at Emanuel ray with the men started as a time of in their fellowship as men together, walking in the light, First John, one seven, you walk into light as He is, in the light, you have fellowship with one another. And you saying, He will tell them, man, we don’t have to hide, we have nothing to hide. You can either be known, or you can be impressive, but you can’t be both. It’s really true. Once you get to know me, I’m not very important. All right, got it, then you feel welcomed in, then you don’t have to be impressed. So I have found the best thing I can do people’s expectations, is bring them to Jesus and says, I can’t meet these. And then be as honest and as gentle and it’s tender and as kind to myself and to the person who was expecting this action, this words, this money, this whatever. That will free me to walk in purity before the Lord, Lord, I can’t do that grace alone. It’s only a youth through me that will accomplish anything. I don’t want them to get Chani, I want them to get me. It will also free that dear brother or sister or family or elder board, or whatever it is search committee to be able to think, Oh, well, maybe I can be open. Maybe it’s okay that I sin sometimes, too.

Let’s not be surprised that we’re sinners. Yeah. Let’s, let’s accept that. And understand that. That brings us close to the throne of grace to improve sympathizes with us in every way. And what is it he brings before recording, and I think it’s verse 16, that says, we can find mercy, and grace to help us in our time of need those two things. So I guess those expectations, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, enter in and help me with this. But through the years now, I have found it more and more freeing to not be surprised when I disappoint people. And to not be surprised when they disappoint me. But to rejoice that we have a Savior who gets us and will see us through.

Kari Olson
Yeah. That’s so that’s so it, that kind of falls along with something our church was talking through and trying to teach our whole congregation one time just not once we tried to make it make it the core of our of who we are, but it’s this preach the gospel to yourself every day. You know, no matter who you are, you preach the gospel to yourself every day. I need Jesus today, because I am a sinner today and he is faithful today, you know, yeah, it’s you never get over that message and that need for for grace. And when you start there, man, those those are those good days of my expectation for myself is more realistic, because now I’m relying on the Lord. And then for others. Oh, I know, I know. I’ve been there. You know, I know. And you you can have a better expectation of others that I definitely agree with that, wouldn’t you, Kristen, that that’s such a key.

Kristen Wetherell
Yeah, I think, you know, it teaches us that the ground at the foot of the crisis level, right. Like we’re all we’re all there together. We’re all standing there together. Just because I’m a pastor’s wife doesn’t mean I have any less need for Jesus. In fact, I might need more needed more in certain aspects. Yeah, yeah. But I think too, I appreciate what you’re saying about the other person, you know, seeing our willingness to be open and to say, I need the Lord. And here’s how I also think it frees people to need the Lord in terms of Have, I can’t actually be this for you. And so that might feel disappointing. I might have if it could be that I failed at some way, or did I just have to say no to something? And that actually gives them an opportunity as well to say, well, great, then I have to look to the Lord for this or perhaps, to someone else. And, and I’m always learning that as well. It’s like, I can’t always rely on people, you know, the Lord’s asking me to rely on him. Yeah, that’s a good word.

Kari Olson
Oh, it is such a good word. And you know, you rarely hear a pastor’s wife say, you know, I’m just doing such a great job. I’m doing such a great job with this, like this. Everything in my wheelhouse I’m doing so well. Most of the time. We feel inadequate, like we’re not living up to expectations, whether it’s other people’s or ourselves. It is hard to admit, when we maybe aren’t doing a good job, or or have encouragement, you know, the right sort of encouragement, they’re finding that balance is very hard. How would you encourage us to? Yeah, fight discouragement, pursue holiness, really be able to keep that balance of those two? Internal? Yeah.

Jani Ortlund
The only way I’ve found it helpful through the decades is to have my priorities right. I married into a gospel loving family, raise father was a pastor, his mother discipled me through the years, they’re just, I can’t wait to see them again in glory. They’re wonderful, wonderful servants of Jesus Christ, such an example to me. And a daddy and mother taught us to live our life by the three priority. In this order, Jesus is number one, always. Then his body community as a Christian is number two. And then our mission is number three. It’s really easy for me to get my mission, my actions, my ministry, number one. Like this morning, as I was praying through our time together, it was really easy for me to think, oh, I’ll just neglect my quiet time this morning go right to thinking through how this time together might go. But the Lord seemed to say no, get your heart right with me for I think if he’s our first priority, then the other two priorities of how we relate to others in our community, our Christian community, and how we serve those outside the communities fall into line that’s, that helps me not grow discouraged. Because when you grow discouraged when you consider what great things he has done, yes. How can you grow discouraged when you think what a kind thing we serve, always opens, armed, always welcoming, never gobbling up being and disapproval it just Oh. So it’s not so much my having to balance it as just collapse into my head. You know, I just have no other choice than to fall into Jesus Athan and pursue faithfulness, by the daily time with Him in His Word. And let me say this. I’m 72. I’ve been a Christian since I was nine years old. And I’ve tried to read my Bible a lot daily. Through my life. I haven’t always been successful. But I believe it’s really important, really important. And I don’t believe that every day you should come to the word and expect lightning to strike. Just as you can’t think back over all the meals you’ve had in your life, but they all nourished you. Every time we come to feast from the Word of God, it nourishes us with it. It’s word, it’s the living bread. That’s the main way that I fight discouragement. Daily time with Jesus.

Kari Olson
Thank you, thank you for saying that. And thank you for changing that word balance to collapse, because balance implies that I still have some control over over things doesn’t lapse in. I can’t do anything but collapse on onto him onto his grace onto his sustaining power for me. And then go into the word. Thank you. Thank you.

Kristen Wetherell
That’s right. Thank you, Jani. Yeah. Our final question is is related to the woman who was a pastor’s wife thought she would always be You have pastor’s wife, and suddenly her role has changed because she’s not anymore. You know, you mentioned a period in your life when your role look different because Ray was called to be a professor for those nine years. That’s hard, because our calling can feel so intimately linked with our husbands calling. How would you counsel her? The life that she thought she would have is not anymore. God has has changed that or taken it away? How would you counsel her?

Jani Ortlund
I would say again, love the person you married more than the position you married into. Love that man. Not his ministry. Maybe a better way to say it is love the man more than the ministry, you want to love his ministry, you’ll be ministering wherever he wants. But you want to love him first. So that he doesn’t feel in any way. By following the Lord is the point of my life. By following the Lord, I’ve, I’ve taken her out of her ministry. That doesn’t matter to the Lord, he can help let you minister wherever he calls your husband. In fact, if he’s calling your husband somewhere else, he has a better place for you there to your one united, he won’t call your man without calling you. So again, we look to the Lord, we say this is confusing to me. It’s disorienting. I’ve never been a professor’s wife before. I never thought I’d go back to teaching second grade with four little children at home. I don’t know how to do this, that the Lord does. You know, in eternity path, he wrote that page for you in the life of your book before it ever came to be. So we turned a We say Lord, I don’t get this, we might shed some tears. We might fight against it. Like God is going to win. If we are his daughter is going to win. And it will be a beautiful victory that you will rejoicing. So that’s the first thing I would say love the person more more than his positions. And and the second thing I would say is if if there were certain things about being a pastor’s wife that you love, then ask the Lord, to fulfill that desire, he gave you that designer, don’t fulfill it. And ask him for ways that you can minister that fulfill you that bring you joy. Even as you’re used to when we’re pastors, one thing I would say is, you have a very unique position. Now you get what it is to be a pastor’s wife. So whatever church you’re in, make it your goal, your ministry, to be that pastor’s wife, she’s a cheerleader, you can do it anonymously. You don’t need to get in close because you know how hard it is sometimes for someone to try to get in closed and it’s hard. It takes a lot of time. You can do it from wherever, whatever works for you. God brought you to that particular church for that particular pastor’s wife or wives need. And we love them well, as much as you want it to be loved. So you’ve been looking at it all. It’s from the Lord. Yes.

Kari Olson
That is so encouraging and so helpful. Because it doesn’t stop, he will give you a ministry. And we want to be outward focused, wherever we are. And that’s, that’s really exciting, actually, and motivating to me to think of loving as a pastor’s wife, if I’m not a pastor’s wife anymore. That is really special. Danny, it is very clear to us that you love Jesus first. And that you love your community. And you love your mission. And they’re in the right order. It is has been clear in your speech, and your smile and in the way that you’ve thought through our questions. Thank you. Thank you for blessing us with your time today on front row seat. And thank you for being faithful to the Lord so that He will use you and and have a far reach there that more than you even thought probably in ministry.

Jani Ortlund
You’re making these cheer up. Thank you for your honor. I feel undeserving but thank you, Carrie and Christians they AQ, I’d love to being with you. I think your churches are so blessed. Are you at the same church or different branches of the same church?

Kari Olson
Different campuses of the church in different cities. Yes.

Jani Ortlund
Well, they’re blessed to have you.

Kristen Wetherell
Well, you’re very dear, thank you, Jani, for joining us today.

Jani Ortlund
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Kari Olson
Kristen. I am so encouraged, and my heart is so full. Yes, yes. After that conversation, she was just so beautiful in the way that she described her life of ministry. 51 years of ministry has was that fathom it? Something around there. But I’m in the still to see the joy still to see her her dependence on the Lord and her love for her husband. I mean, all of that made it such an encouraging conversation. She said, something that really stuck with me that I don’t think I’ll ever forget, is that you can either be known, or you can be impressive, but you can’t be both. And I want to be known, but oh boy, sometimes do I really want to be impressive in my I feel that struggle in that war in my own heart with as a pastor’s wife, but to be known. And to acknowledge your need for the Lord with other people who also need the Lord is so much the better option than trying to control your own identity or impression. And I want to bring people to the feet of Jesus, like she said, I want to come with them to Jesus’s feet and say, we need you and we need you together. So I’m thankful that she said so many things, but that will stick with me.

Kristen Wetherell
Right? Yeah. And it makes me think of, you know, coming, bringing people to the feet of Jesus, by our example, by the aroma that we’re emitting. Yeah, you want to put it that way. It makes me think of what she shared from Mark 14, you know, the story of, of Mary, worshipping the Lord in the pouring out of, you know, literal perfume, but the giving of herself. And that, to me was really freeing as well, you know, what is the what is the example that I am putting forth for people? Is it wanting to be known by the Lord and by others or wanting to be impressive? Because the reality is, most of the time, I can only do what I can. And like she pointed out that verse, verse eight, she has done, what she could have done, what I could do, you know, and what, what God has called me to do today, with all my limitations with all my weaknesses, even with all my sin, you know, and so that was a really needed reminder for me. And that that is okay. In fact, it’s good, you know, yeah, it’s good. Man, what a rich conversation. She is just a fount of wisdom, and it’s because she’s drinking in the Lord’s word. And I love that about God. So we hope sisters that you were really blessed by this episode today as we were, remember that God sees you. Yes, you’re in the front row seat, and God sees you. And not only that, but he perfectly knows the calling that he has upon your life and he has good things in store for you. So thanks for joining us today on front row seat.