Social Sanity Book Club Chapter 3: Guarding Your Heart

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Sarah Zylstra
Welcome back to our book club on social sanity in an Insta world. I am Sarah Zylstra, who edited this book. And I am here with Gretchen, who wrote chapter three on emotions. Gretchen, welcome.

Gretchen Saffles
Thank you for having me. I’ve been so looking forward to this. And I hope that everybody is loving. Me too.

Sarah Zylstra
Let’s dive in by talking about can you tell us? Do you remember when you first got social media? What did you get?

Gretchen Saffles
I do remember Facebook was the first social media. So it went Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And this was a fun question, because I haven’t really gone down memory lane of when I entered into this universe of social media. So originally, it was just really fun after high school, you know, connecting with friends finding ways to create. And as we all know, social media has changed drastically in those years. So it’s been I mean, that was 22,007 when I joined, okay, so are 2008.

Sarah Zylstra
Like, 15 years?

Gretchen Saffles
It is what it is. Yeah, yeah. When I joined, yeah. So

Sarah Zylstra
like, basically your adult your whole adult life? That’s so true. Yes. Okay. And it’s quite, it’s interesting how our adult lives are shaped so differently than our mother’s adult lives. Like, it’s a totally different scenario that we’re looking at with our grown up in this. Talk a little bit about when did you first notice that maybe social media, like at first, it’s super fun, you’re connecting with your friends? When did you first notice like, oh, maybe things aren’t so perfect over here.

Gretchen Saffles
You know, really, it was when I started using Twitter and Instagram more regularly. So Instagram didn’t come till I think 2010. So a few years down the road, you know, Facebook was just sort of fine hit or miss. But Twitter, I noticed began to shape how I thought in sentences because of the amount of characters you could share. And then when I graduated college, I ended up working at a church. And it was interesting, because that was kind of a culture, you know, everybody was on Twitter. And you know how Twitter is really built around witty statements, and concise, you know, points and things that you’re going to make. And I remember noticing, okay, my thoughts are beginning to be shaped around what I can share on Twitter. So that was one of the first things that I noticed, this is not a very healthy relationship with an app that I’m just going to post something on, that has nothing to do with my you know, in person relationships, Instagram, I feel like was a lot more immediate to notice that you could discover people so much more quickly. And I think the whole light feature, and you know, those things that kind of came about right away, I begin to notice, okay, I’m finding a lot more of my identity here than I really should be. So that one was a bit faster. Facebook took a while because it just I was in my college years. And it really wasn’t that big of a deal for me. But those two, once I got out of my college years and began to see, I want to be connected with people, I’m meeting new friends, you know, this is kind of a way we can stay connected. But it wasn’t the true connection that I long for him.

Sarah Zylstra
I think that’s interesting. I totally agree. I know that you say that I totally can see how Twitter shapes the thoughts in your head because you’re thinking like, Oh, I’m noticing something. Could I think of something clever to say about that in like this many characters are like, but I think that’s also true with like a Facebook or Facebook or Instagram, like, Hmm, did a cute moment just happen? Like, how could I compose this picture here to be like a cute picture that would look good online. Although I think to some extent, like if you’re using a camera, you’re always thinking in terms of like, what would be a good composition of a picture. But yes,

Gretchen Saffles
it’s shaped how we experience our kids. Now social media shapes, how we experience things, how we take it in how we capture it, because we’re thinking, okay, can this be shared? You know, what’s this going to be like? So it’s really fascinating how much it’s impacted. Just not only daily life, but enjoying moments.

Sarah Zylstra
Yeah, I think that’s really true and interesting, and not always bad. Because you do want to share those moments with people and sometimes those are moments you want to hang on to. Yeah, so you do want the picture of them. So it’s not a bad thing. It’s just like, ooh, just noticing thing maybe like what exactly like, this is shaping us in some way.

Gretchen Saffles
Exactly. And there are moments I went to enjoy with other people. I, we just one of my friends got married recently, and I was unable to attend a wedding and I love seeing her post her wedding pictures, you know, so there’s things that since I wasn’t able to be there now I feel like I can take part in it and I can ask her questions and I can see her pictures and rejoice with her. So you know, there’s the side of I actually I want to be able to To, you know, take part in these moments in friends and family’s lives that I may not be able to otherwise, but in the past people definitely couldn’t.

Sarah Zylstra
There’s a lot of joy there. One, one thing that you say in your chapter, which was excellent, is that the question we’re asking isn’t, is social media affecting my emotions? But am I aware of the impact social media is having, which is kind of like what we’re talking about, except for with how we’re feeling like we’re noticing how it’s changing the way we’re thinking, but it’s also changing the way that we’re feeling things. How can we even be aware of how social media is changing our feelings? Like, was there a point when you became aware of that?

Gretchen Saffles
Absolutely. And I’m not sure I can pinpoint it exactly, I’ll probably go back to when I first had my when I had my first child. So there’s already a lot of emotions there postpartum life, change, stress, just all of those things. And I noticed that when I pulled it up, there were there was this overwhelming flood of emotions, probably because there was a bigger surge in my body anyways, where I felt this pressure, I felt disappointed in myself or discouraged, I felt like I needed to prove myself or keep up or catch up or not be left out, I mean, all of those things. And it was affecting my body too, because I would get off and I would feel tense, you know, when your your body changes its posture, when you have a certain feeling come upon you, whether it’s anger, or joy, or, you know, some kind of start, like whatever it is, our bodies actually respond. So when we experience emotions, it’s never just an inner feeling. That feeling then impacts your blood pressure, you know, how you’re, how relaxed you are, how you’re thinking. And so I remember that season, really noticing this is impacting my daily life. It’s impacting how I’m thinking, and our thoughts that impact how we feel, and then how we act. And so that’s when I really began to see how it was shaping my thoughts more than I wanted it to. So, you know, on the negative side, it was shaping how I felt about myself, you know, was my worth proven today? Was I seen enough today? Did I produce something that, you know, added worth to the world today, because, you know, when you’re in those mundane seasons, you know, like, changing newborn diapers, or whatever it is, you know, studying, writing papers in college, you feel like, am I adding anything to anybody, even though we, you know, we know, deep down, okay, we’re doing this for the glory of God, God’s preparing us. But then there’s this part in our human nature where we’re going, but I want to do more, I want to be seen, I want to be applauded. And so that began to be really obvious to me. So I sort of went on a journey. Now I even got into counseling in that time, because I was in just a hard place emotionally and the newborn transition, and learns that there’s an importance and asking questions, even of your soul that we see in Scripture. So you see this and the psalmist, asking, Why are you cast down on my soul, you know, being introspective, not to the point of being so introspective, that you get lost in yourself? Because when we ask those questions, they ultimately are supposed to point us to God, but asking, Why am I feeling like this after I got off of social media? Or why did I feel really disappointed when I pulled it up and saw I got eight likes on a photo or something? And so asking those questions helps get down to a bottom root belief of thinking, My identity is here, I have to prove myself. And so I’m learning to ask those questions. And I’m learning to notice the state of our bodies and how that changes when we both use social media. And when we aren’t on social media, because that’s important too, when I noticed that, like on the weekends, I delete social media. And a lot of times I am so much more relaxed, I feel focused, getting ready for the week. And then I normally redownload it either late Sunday night or Monday morning. And there’s a shift that takes place, but it’s helped my body to notice that to have time away so that when I re enter I’m not unaware of the change that takes place. that’s

Sarah Zylstra
I think it’s really good just to ask those questions, and try and dig down a little bit farther into how am I feeling like this. So one thing I was thinking about, it feels like my emotions when I go to social media are really like I’m anticipating I’m excited about it. I’m just gonna like I’m, you know, this is going to like lift me up a little bit. There’s going to be some light here. I’m gonna it’s gonna be Yeah, but then that’s not generally how I feel when I get off. By the time I’m done. I’m not feeling glad or joyful or filled up. Usually, I’m feeling like disappointed or sad or irritated with myself or with somebody else, how and and this is like the pattern over and over and over again, swinging back and forth between these two things. What is that, like? What’s going on with this? Like, I’m expecting, and it’s disappointing. I’m expecting it’s disappointing. And then I continue to expect, even though it continues to disappoint wasn’t that weird, right?

Gretchen Saffles
It’s not weird, it’s so normal, because we’re placing our expectations and something, I want you to think about the moment that you are pulling it up, and you’d have that expectation. A lot of times, and this is not all the time, but a lot of times, it’s in a moment where I kind of want to my circumstances for just a minute, you know, maybe like, my kids are being crazy. And I’m like, I’m just gonna pull up social media and see if there’s something that, you know, helps me escape. And so my expectation is looking for escape looking for peace. And so I’m going to be let down. Or maybe it’s in a moment where I’m going, I feel kind of insecure right now on myself. Like, I want to see if somebody noticed me or sent me a message or said, My topless cue from the picture I posted last night with friends. And then you get on it. Nobody did. And so then what do you do you doubt your worth, I mean, so simple, you know, you’re like, I need to return that top. Now, like nobody said anything about my top. And I mean, tell me, you haven’t done this before. And so we’re placing our expectation and a place, you know, and people that they’re not showing up to fulfill us, they’re not showing up to do that they’re showing up to be fulfilled, they’re showing up to be seen. And so social media is a place where when we get on there, the majority of the time, not all the time, but the majority we are there to receive and we are there to take and to be seen. But it’s not the place that you really are going to get that right, you’re going to get that when you’re in the presence of other people who love you and know you and can see that, wow, you seem really down today, can I ask you, you know what’s going on and or, even just going to the word and being met in that moment of, okay, I’m feeling frustrated, I’m feeling overwhelmed and finding peace in God’s word, rather than in the words of others. So a lot of times, I think we have that cycle, because we are placing our expectations in something that isn’t meant to fulfill us. Now, there’s the other side of social media affects our brain chemistry, too. So when you pull it up, it’s like an addiction, there’s a book called the dopamine nation, that I don’t know if you’ve heard of it before. But it’s all about this addiction that we are facing in our society that when we pull it social media, it gives you this little dopamine hit. So you know, say you post a picture, and so many people like it, or they’re like, Oh, you look so great. You know, I especially see this in our youth right now. You know, when some of the girls that I used to invest in, they’ll post a picture, and then the comments below, I’m like, these are not matching this picture. And they’re all feeding each other’s dopamine. And so you get that hit, and then the next time you get on, you’re gonna bought your want, your body wants more, it’s going to need more to kind of get that little high. And so we’re training ourselves to go here for a dopamine hit when you’re going to need more and more and more, that’s why people, you know, they’ll have millions of followers, and they will just crash with depression, anxiety, addiction, because they’ve realized that I’m still not satisfied millions of people follow me, they love me, you know, you know, this happens with movie stars. I, there was an influencer years ago who had millions of followers, and they quit all of a sudden. And it was a big deal, because they got off. And they said, this was not good for my mental health. And they realized that and they literally pulled the plug. I mean, most people wouldn’t do that it was really, really interesting to watch that unfold. So there’s also this kind of wiring that’s taking place in our brains. And if we want to fight against that, we have to be first rooted in God’s word rooted in church fellowship with people around us, who will actually encourage us and point us to Christ and sharpen us, and who were involved in our daily lives.

Sarah Zylstra
So the problem maybe is that we go to social media, driven by emotion, looking for a motion. When really, we should maybe ask ourselves a question before we even get on, which is like, what emotion are you feeling right now? Like you want, like, you’re bored or like, things are crazy. So you just want to step out a minute. There a different way that you could step out a minute, or is there like a verse you could hold on to? Or could you count to 10? And take a deep breath and then re engage with what’s going on?

Gretchen Saffles
Absolutely. So I think it’s, we are gonna, we’re never going to it in an emotional vacuum. You know, we’re always approaching it or maybe we’re approaching it and like, I just had the best experience or the best quiet time with the Lord. And I want everybody to know what I learned, you know, and that, and I say that not in a bad way in a way that you’re like, I want to encourage people with this truth. So you can even come from that sort of place, but we’re always coming from some sort of emotional state that’s driving Our intake as well as our output on social media.

Sarah Zylstra
Oh, that’s good. Ooh, that makes this feel fraught. Yeah. I know. And like invisibly fraught, because I didn’t think so much about my emotions before but to think about, it deserves a lot more thought that we’re getting to it.

Gretchen Saffles
It does. And you know, when we’re in Scripture, we see these emotions displayed. And that’s where I found so much freedom and understanding regarding my emotions, you know, especially in the Psalms, God divinely inspired these songs to be in our Bibles. And they just record the gamut of emotions from extreme joy and praise and exultation to Psalm 88, which N begins and ends in just sorrow, just the, you know, this darkness. And so God is not an aware of our emotions, he is not, you know, saying you should not feel that. Rather, he’s giving us this opportunity to say that your emotions can actually take you to me, they can drive you to your need for me to worship in me, you know, to trusting me to surrendering. And so all of our emotions can serve as that arrow pointing us back to our God and our need for him.

Sarah Zylstra
That’s really good. I wonder then, if social media is sometimes like the idol that we slide in, in place that God right to 100% you’re looking for a little piece or a little joy? You’re just looking the wrong way? Yep, absolutely. Okay. So here’s another question I have about emotions. Do you think social media and emotions are different? Because I’m experiencing them all by myself alone? On my end of the screen in instead of like, so your friend’s wedding, your emotions? Would that have been different? Had you been there in person with her rather than on your own side of the screen? And do you think that that, if that’s true, does that make does that mute our emotions and make them less or make them sharper? Or make them weirder? How does it change our emotions to be alone?

Gretchen Saffles
Yeah, I think it depends on what your so the example of my friend, there would have been even more joy if I had been there and been able to give her a hug, you know, like, eat her cake with her, just enjoy. The Fellowship of you just got married, this is amazing, let’s celebrate. But then I also think of the other side of emotions, can they they can be more exaggerated when you feel it by yourself. So for instance, I think of you pull up social media, and you see all your friends get together without you. And maybe like, you have no clue the reason why you weren’t asked. And sometimes there is a reasoning, they think, Oh, she’s just so busy right now, like, we we know that she probably can’t do this, you know, I don’t know what it is. But then our emotions are more exaggerated, because we feel this hurt, that is not being repaired through one on one conversation with that person. And then that can actually be stirred and get greater and greater and greater, and the other person doesn’t even know that this is happening right now. And so I think there’s a point where it can be muted. Or maybe it’s even something that you are longing for. And, you know, you’re longing to be married, or you’re longing to have a child or you’re longing to, you know, have a new job, and all of your friends you graduated with got the job that you want, and you didn’t. And so you know, it can also maybe even mute the responses. Okay? If I was with them, I probably would be rejoicing more and they would probably talk to me and encouraged me, but I’m not. And so we get stuck in this cycle. And we start to ruminate on things that maybe aren’t true about our friends, about our circumstances, even about God. And so when we are doing that in a vacuum without other people to process with, or the people around us to tell us the truth, and to remind us of that, then it can either mute it or actually make it way more exaggerated. Way bigger than it really should be in that moment.

Sarah Zylstra
Ah, how do you know like I said, just back to asking yourself questions are like, how do you know is this like weirdly too strong? Of an emotion? Or a weird, you know, like, am I feeling the right thing here versus them?

Gretchen Saffles
Well, I was gonna say there is the point of Yes, asking ourselves questions, but we also need to have somebody in our lives that we’re talking to about it. And there’s times where I’ve seen something and I do have close friends that I’ll say, Okay, I saw this and this is how I’m feeling about it. Can you help talk to me about this, you know, like, it could even be a political post that somebody shares I literally have a friend who she’s just really wise in politics and you know, that’s what she majored in, in college. So sometimes I’ll see something and I’ll and I’ll just go to her and get Can we talk about this? And so instead of just sticking with it yourself, to have some It is wise to have somebody who knows you who loves you. And it could be a friend, a spouse, a mentor, a sibling, you know, a parent, somebody that you can go to and say, Can you help me? decipher this a little bit? Can you help me kind of break down? Why am I feeling this? And what’s going on? And also, there’s the question of, is what I’m feeling right. Right now, you know, maybe I’m feeling angered over something somebody said, and so it’s, is this a righteous anger that comes from Scripture? Because you know, the name of God is being aligned? Or, you know, people are living unjustly? And what’s that causing a response in me? What’s the response going to be? Or is it an anger that is actually wrong, that I need to repent of and combat is. And so we really also need to do that with other people with trusted people who know us who love us, and who can help bring discernment to our circumstances and to our feelings as well,

Sarah Zylstra
that’s really good. I think that’s really good. I think about all the times that I’ve say something to my friends, and it would be like, like, maybe your luck getting a little too worked up over something. Just to have somebody who can speak the truth to you like that. I love that.

Gretchen Saffles
Outside of your circumstances who can help you see, because sometimes, especially when we’re hurting, or when we are hurting, we need somebody that can help us see clearly and go, you know, your friends really not hurting you, I think that you know, there’s there’s maybe some pain inside of you, or they can just help us see better and be able to bring that right response really

Sarah Zylstra
good. I also like the idea of praying, like, it’s hard to pray for somebody that you’re that you feel like has hurt you or you’re angry with. But if you can do it and like ask the Holy Spirit to help you do it, that also turns the temperature way down. I have found it like, okay, you can pray about the circumstance and then try and pray for them. It helps you to desire the best for them and to just settle down and right, absolutely on. So you’ve done a small survey, we at TGC did a survey of women, and it seems like research is clear. There is a link between how much time we spend online and our emotions and it’s not a positive link. It’s very negative. Right? And you feel there’s lots and lots of studies on like the envy or the depression or the anxiety that comes from spending so much time online. So Gretchen, why why why do we keep spending all this time online? Like, is there something in us that likes feeling bad? Or like why if there’s this clear link, do we keep doing this?

Gretchen Saffles
Yeah, I think there’s a fear component to it, I really do that. We are afraid that if we get off, maybe we haven’t tasted that maybe you have never had a social media break. You’ve been on it for years, you’ve been feeling this for years. And the very thought of deleting that app from your phone. I mean, it kind of makes you like, what am I going to miss out on? Will everybody forget about me like, Well, my friends, even though I exist still, well, I know what’s going on in their lives still, if I get off of social media, so there’s a sphere component of Oh, my goodness, or am I going to be forgotten? And that drives us to stay on that drives us to, you know, be consuming more and more and more, or you think, am I going to myself, like what’s happening in the world. And so I really think there’s a big fear component, because we are created to be relational creatures, we are created to have fellowship with other people and to be you know, with others, and that can really drive us to stay on when we don’t even know, it kind of reminds me of the CS Lewis quote, I’m not gonna say this very well. But it’s the whole, you know, he’s saying that our desires are too weak, like we’re making mud pies, when we could really be enjoying a holiday at NaVi. And so it’s like, we haven’t even tasted the freedom of, you know, if I got off, I could actually call my friend, like, I would have time to just say, Hey, you want to go get coffee right now or to drop by and just, you know, bring them a coffee. And so you don’t even know that possibilities that it’s going to open up. And maybe even in your life, you’ll realize, oh, I can’t doing some of the things that I love and that God created me to do. You know, I love to paint. I love to bake for people. I love to read. And so it redeems it pulls back all of that time. But we have to first break through of this fear thinking that we’re going to miss out we’re going to be forgotten. And you know, I’ve had several friends who have gotten off of social media permanently and they’re great. They’re like, this was a great idea. I have friends who have taken a break for a few months and gotten back on and they’ve just said, it really helps me to disconnect and to kind of see what matters. And now that I’m back on, I have a healthier relationship with it. And so it really helps us to kind of reset and I think of Andy Crouch in the tech wise family, his book. He begins his book and he kind It brings it full circle as he goes throughout, but saying we have to put technology in its proper place. And that stuck with me. I mean, of all the things that he shared in that book, there was so much good wisdom in it, but just this idea of putting it in its proper place, because we do idolize it. I’ve been studying the book of mica lately, and a lot of it is about the people’s idolatry that turns them away from God. And then it not only turned him away from guy that got them in this rut of just crazy disobedience to God’s law and just obstinance away from Him. And God continually says, like, these idols have to come down. And you know, in order for you to really follow me, and to abide by my law, and to live according to the way that is righteous and holy, and who’s good for you. And so our phones is, I’ve been thinking about what are the idols of our days, you know, because we don’t really craft you know, at least not in America, that still does happen globally. But we don’t really like craft a little figure that we carry with us. But when you think of our idols, it’s this and, you know, carrying around our phone, and if we don’t have it, we freak out. Like, that’s an idol. If you cannot go without it, you know, run to the grocery store, and he forgot it. Because what if you know, what if I miss a phone call or tweet at Instagram, like, then yeah, that’s become an idol in our lives. And so we have put it not in its proper place, we really have put it before God and relationship with others. And that keeps us in a rut with using social media. But when it is in its proper place, we can use it with freedom, because it’s not, you know, our phones are not evil. Social media is not evil. But we know that Satan can take anything to turn us away from God when we put it above him. And so when God is in his proper place, at the forefront of our lives and in our hearts and minds, then we can use this and not be tied down to it, not be chained to it. But instead use it as a tool as an opportunity as something to enjoy, and then to satisfy and go live. So it becomes where that’s not our life. But that’s an overflow of our daily lives.

Sarah Zylstra
How do we know though Gretchen? Like, Are there signs? Is there warning signs? Or how do I know if I’m a person who enjoys social media? Winter? When is it crossing over into idle territory? So like you mentioned, like not being able to go without it or feeling panicky about that, that for sure. It feels like a sign? Are there other warning signs like? Like, what am I feeling right now, that’s, you know, a red flag.

Gretchen Saffles
Right, I think the time that we spend on it is very telling of how much of it place it has in our lives. So, you know, on most phones, there’s a way to track like, at the end of the week, it tracks your time and it says you spent this much times I think it even tracks like your pickup and your tabs on it, you know, and so being able to track that and go like, Oh my word, I spent 10 hours on social media this week, like, it helps open your eyes to see that. So what I’m just realizing the amount of time that you spend there, but also evaluating your thoughts to like, How much am I thinking about this? How much am I spending my life, you know, like my kids, I’m getting upset with them, because they’re not taking the perfect picture for me to share. You know, it’s in those moments that you start to realize, yeah, this is probably not in a good place. You know, I’m idolizing this, and I get frustrated with my kids, because they won’t take a good picture to be on social media, like that’s gone a little bit too far. And so it’s really even noticing our patterns. And, and then also just the time that we spend on it and when we spend on it. So I’m thinking about like, first thing in the morning, is that what you fill your mind with? Do you stay up late, and just scroll social media, in these moments when we should be just resting or spending time with friends. And so evaluating how much again the time and then the thought that is going into it. And that really is pretty telling about it about how much it is controlling your lie.

Sarah Zylstra
That’s really good. I’m gonna throw this question at you. Is there like an ideal emotional state that you should be in when you approach your social media? Like if I know I shouldn’t be approaching it to give me a little escape or some piece or something I should be going to God for? Is there should I be going to it like in a mellow state where I’m just like, cool with whatever happened on there, or excited or like what should be you know, how can I know I’m in the right emotional place to even log in?

Gretchen Saffles
Yeah, that’s a good question. And I think it could be a little overwhelming for people because it’s like, oh, gosh, like am I ever in the right place? And So I think that for me, when I am not spending as much time on it, I don’t go to it with those desires to be fulfilled, because I am finding my fulfillment somewhere else. And so instead of just always going, am I like, you know, there are questions to ask. And I’m pulling this up, because I want to see if people notice me. But I’m not sure if there’s always that ideal state, because there are moments. And I don’t know, if this has happened to you, it has happened to me where I have been in, like, a, I’m discouraged, and I’m pulling it up, and God has met me there. God has, you know, one of my friends posted something that I, he just used to speak to me and to remind me of his word. Maybe it was even a video of somebody posted, you know, teaching a word, or an article, and I read it, and I was like, Oh, thank you, Lord, like thank you for meeting me in that place. And so I don’t even know if you can totally negate all of those, because there are moments that God goes, Hey, I know you’re pulling this out, but I’m still pursuing you. And you know that he is so sovereign, and he is so over everything. And he is so loving to us that he can even use that article that someone worked on months ago, and posted just today, and you’re pulling it up. And it was exactly what your heart needed. And, and that’s, that’s just his goodness, and his common grace and using social media. So I think being really wise in that time. But also knowing that God can meet us there in those moments. And you know, there are times where I pull it up, and then I go like, if I’m not interested in it, because I am just unsatisfied in my life like, not that everything’s going good. But I just have realized like, this isn’t going to satisfy me. So I’ll pull it up, maybe I’ll see something like, you know, write back to a friend, but then I’m like, I’m done now. Because it’s not in that place of being an idle. So I just want to even encourage the woman who feels like, maybe she’s more prone in her walk with the Lord to beat herself up. And to overanalyze, and to become very legalistic, not to take those tendencies into when you’re approaching social media, regarding your emotions, because I think that can happen to for the woman who has become, or has those legalistic tendencies. So to know that like, as long as we are really fostering spiritual disciplines and our life, you know, spending time in the Word, prayer worship fellowship with others, you know, giving just, there’s so many more spiritual disciplines that when we are fostering those, it is going to leak into our social media usage in a really positive, beautiful, Christ honoring way.

Sarah Zylstra
Oh, that’s so good. Can you talk to us a little bit? I know, you mentioned that you you doubt or you get rid of your apps for the weekends? And you get back on Monday? Like, are there other structures that you have in place? What’s been helpful for you in using social media?

Gretchen Saffles
Yeah, so even I started using or I started deleting social media from for the weekend, about a year or two ago. And I remember at first thinking, like, Oh, can I do this, and I look forward to it every weekend, like I really do, it’s a space where I go, like, I don’t have to take this, and I’m just gonna be friends spend time with my family. So deleting it, but then I have actually started using some more resources that my phone has given me. So for instance, there’s a downtime feature that you can do if you have an iPhone, and you may be able to do this with other types of phones as well. But I have this downtime feature. So at 8pm, I think till 7am, it locks down my social media. And so And there’s certain apps that I have, like, because it can lock down all your apps, like it keeps my Bible app, open my reading app, you know, certain apps that are not social media, that are ones that I can use to you know, spend time with Lord or just rest. But that has been a very good visual reminder to me, even in the mornings when I wake up, and I know I should be or should, and could, I don’t want to bring shoulds into our relationship with the Lord, but you know, be spending time with the Lord or just resting. And sometimes my kids wake up early, and I’m like, Oh, I just want to pull up social media and just like, avoid listening to their TV show right now. But I know that that’s really not the best thing for my heart in that moment. Like I need to be present with them having that locked down. And there’s a way to get past it. But it’s like it’s a barrier to going. Okay, I know I’m running here, you know, for PE satisfaction. And then I also set a time limit on it this year. So, so once I like hit that time limit, and I don’t know if I have today, I haven’t yet, but it says like, it kind of makes it where you have to ignore the limit to get back on. And again, it helps me just asked that question and that moment and sometimes I do need to ignore it like and I’m totally in a good place where I can ignore it and get on and do a few things. But sometimes, when I see that I go Yeah, I really should be, you know, cooking dinner. I’m just like, I need a nap right now. I mean, as we record this, I am very pregnant. I don’t know if they can see that on the screen. But in those moments, I’m like, I legitimately need an app and not just scroll social media. So it’s again, it’s just this barrier. It’s this pause. It’s a pause that makes me go. Is this the wisest thing for my soul right now, like, is this the best way I should spend my time in this moment. And sometimes it is, like, sometimes there’s, there’s a good reason to be on it. But then sometimes it’s not. And it helps me. So and then other thing is just being really wise about who I follow, and searching. And I think that’s really overwhelming with social media now is they have made their search feature. So in your face, that sometimes I’ll even go like, Oh, I want to see what my friend Laura is doing. Or she told me she posted something and I want to go check it out. And I pull it up. And I forget, I literally see all these reels that influencers have made and then I just feel like my brain just combust in that moment. And so, you know, I have to be very careful about how much I even do that because I can get sucked into these reels that came from I don’t even have tick tock. I’ve never downloaded tick tock because I have read so much. And I’ve heard amazing things. There was a student in our church who got up, you know, he was when we do baptism, whoever is being baptized, baptized, shares their testimony first. And he was saved to take up, literally pulled out Tik Tok several times, one time he pulled it up, he was in like a bad state kind of, you know, mentally and somebody on Tik Tok was encouraging you to read your Bible. And so he legit picked up his Bible and read his Bible. And like the Lord used Tik Tok to draw him to himself. So even that, you know, I’m like, God, literally use this app that can be very addictive. And this, this kid, you know, he was like, 16 years old, was so on fire for the Lord. And I just, you know, I’m like, sitting with tears in my eyes going, Oh, my God can do that. Like he can use the space that can breed animosity, and addiction, all of those things to actually draw people to Himself. So I’m just saying that as well. But I have to be very careful about how much I start searching because I know I can go down the rabbit hole. And then I can start watching these food videos of like, people making stuff. And somehow I’m watching this video of somebody, and I’m like, Who is this? And how can I spend this much time there. So I have to be really careful about that. And that’s just something I had to kind of watch in my own life and go, oh, like, I’m starting to spend too much time doing this. And, you know, I’ll tell you what, having kids is a real black checker anyways. I know not everybody listening has kids, but there’s other things, you know, it may be at your work, because they need me in that moment. And I can’t just sit there and scroll the whole time, you know, they’re gonna Mom, mom, mom, hey, Mom, look at me.

Gretchen Saffles
And even that is, it’s good for my soul to go, Yeah, I’m sorry, buddy, I’m gonna set this down, I’m gonna look at you because you are much more important than this. So setting in those rhythms is really healthy. And the last one, we don’t sleep with our phones. I know some people that worries them. You know, because they’re like, Well, if there’s an emergency at night, there’s a way to get around that, you know, like we, our Apple Watches are in there, like we have a do not disturb the it can break through, you know, like, I trust that if there is a major emergency, like the Lord is going to get ahold of us, but it has been so much healthier for my husband and I to not have our room or our phones in our room. So that we can actually read, spend time together actually sleep. You know, if I wake up in the night, I don’t pull up social media and scrolling like I used to, then I didn’t sleep all night, I actually lay there maybe I pray or you know, try to go back to sleep, whatever it is. And so that has been so practical, we have a little charging station. And my boys know that it’s there too. And so sometimes when you know they want to get on my phone, I go buddy’s like, this is not time for our phone, can you go put it in the cabinet. And so it also helps my kids to see that, you know, there’s a time and a place to use it. But there’s also a time and a place to put it away.

Sarah Zylstra
I love that. You said one thing that made me wonder and it was about being tired. And I think we feel our emotions more when we’re tired. And I also think we go to social media quicker, would retire. It’s just like we don’t have the resistance or the brainpower or the energy to so it’s just such an easy thing to do. And then of course we’re like more rational because we’re tired. Is there any cat like can you talk about rest at all or how that plays into all that? Yeah, I

Gretchen Saffles
actually I was writing about this recently because I had a moment where it was the end of the day. And I’m especially I’m just a lot more limited right now in my body with pregnancy and I my husband said you go lay down like just go lay down shut the door for a minute. I got the boys and I lay down and then I pulled up social me Yeah, and I remember just immediately feeling this kind of thinking feeling. And I knew I legitimately in that moment needed to just shut my eyes and rest my body. But I felt this pull in me to go to social media. And, you know, we talked about spiritual disciplines a little while ago, but one of the really important spiritual disciplines is biblical meditation. And that is one that is very, very hard to foster in our lives. Because we’re so busy, we’re always filling our minds, we’re always you know, go, go, go, go, go, it’s very rare, we start to just meditate on God’s word, you know, just to let it sink into as from our heads all the way down, you know, to the tips of our toes that, you know, one of the passages I go back to often is Psalm 23. So the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want nothing, you know, just in those moments to go to God’s Word in your mind, you know, and that’s, again, the discipline of memorizing God’s word, you know, taking time to hide it in your heart. So the Holy Spirit pulls it out in those moments. And so I began to realize true soul rest, like the restorative rest, I mean, we know in Scripture, Christ came to give us rest, the true rest that’s in him, and one day, we will enter an eternal rest in Him. That right now, you know, we do get exhausted and weary. And he says, Come to me, not, hey, come to Instagram, and you will find rest for your souls, like, no, come to me. And so in that moment, are we willing to do the hard, uncomfortable work of praying, you know, and even when it’s hard, I know, like, your brain is just all over the place. But we have to wrestle our thoughts into submission before the Lord and with the help of the Lord. So will you do that work in that moment of praying, which it’s not really work, it’s entering that rest in Him, or even just a relaxing and him of, you know, literally relaxing your body and going, okay, like, I’m so tense right now, my kids were just yelling, I had a really long day at work, like, Lord, help me just to relax my body as I think about your truth and learn that I can rest in you that you are sovereign, even though it feels like the world is going crazy, is so divided, you know, like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen, I can rest in you. And it’s not only a mental rest, it’s a physical rest, too. And so, when we come to social media, and I exhausted state, it often amplifies everything, you know, like a megaphone way more than when we come instead. And those moments of, I’m exhausted, I’m looking for peace, God, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna actually shut my eyes for a minute. If you’re able to, like, you’re driving your car, don’t do that, but or I’m going to just think about your word. You know, this word that I read this morning in Scripture, or this passage that I’m memorizing, and I’m just going to pray it and, you know, I want that to be what my mind is ruminating on is God’s word, because that transforms assets, that truth, that will bring freedom and it’s that truth that will set us free and transform the way that we think in the way that we feel. So true soul rest is found in our Savior. It’s found in, you know, praying and identifying with him and communicating with him and being in his word. It’s not found in scrolling social media. And I think everybody’s felt that before that, again, it’s it’s going God, I am weak in this moment helped me helped me to put that away. And sometimes you need to just leave your phone in another room to take away the temptation. And you know, it could it could be five minutes, and it’s not like it’s a magical pill, you know that you’ve meditated on God’s word for five minutes, like we all know that. God always has word always yields what he purposes and sets out for it to do. You know, Isaiah 55, always says, and so when we meditate on it, when we hide it in our heart, when we open it when we pray, we know that God is producing a fruit greater in us than we can even see. But he sees what’s happening in our hearts in our mind. Oh, that’s so good.

Sarah Zylstra
I have another question for you, because you’re a deep feeler. And I was just thinking about when you go to social media, and you’re scrolling down the feed of whatever it is, and you can, it feels like you’re like if I’m talking to you, we probably process one deep emotion at a time. Like maybe we’re sharing some grief over something and we sit with that for a while and we talk about it and we process it and then we move to something lighter. And then like there’s sort of a natural rhythm to how we experience emotions. Right ever. If I am scrolling something, it feels like I have this post about a sad child dying in a car accident. And then right after that, there’s a post of like, Yay, celebrate with me. I’m getting a job promotion and then right after that, it’s an ad And then right after that would be like something else. And so it feels like there’s no room to process any of it. It feels like a messy jumble of emotions that is like, up. It’s like sort of all over the place. Yeah. Have any advice for like, scroll slower? Or like?

Gretchen Saffles
I would probably say scroll. Yeah. Yeah. And it may be even the average person follows too many people, sometimes 1000s of people. And there’s, there’s even if you look, I don’t know, maybe it says like, 500 that I followed. Like, that’s a lot. But then I look and I’m going, Oh, but I do church a long time ago. But I will say I, I use that mute feature to sometimes, you know, with I’m like, Okay, I just don’t need to know everything that’s happening right now. So I can mute this person. But I think it’s a lot of the scroll less. And there’s so much tragedy, that we cannot take all that on, and my sister’s a Christian counselor. And she were also very wired, wired very differently. And so she knows me, she knows that if I come across something that is devastating in somebody’s life, I will literally take it on as if it is my own, and God hasn’t called me to do that. He’s called me to pray for them. You know, if it’s somebody I know, maybe there’s a way I can support them, bringing them a meal sitting with them. Um, but you know, there’s also times where I don’t know this person, and I never will. And I will become obsessed. Because I’m such a deep feeler, I will become obsessed with their story. And I have to be very wise, and she’s one of those people that she’ll go, Gretchen, you need to take a step back, you need to pray for them. You know, God has called us to pray, if he leads you to do something else to contact them, like do that. But otherwise, you cannot be you can’t carry their story or their burden, because God has a story for you as well. And so as a dealer, I have to be very cautious about those things. So sometimes it is just scrolling less, or being very wise and going, You know what, if I am going to scroll, I’m also going to participate my friends lives. So I’m going to comment, and I’m going to, you know, or I’m going to just get off the app, there’s several times where I see something one of my friends posts and I just get off and I text him right away, or call him you know, and take that step going, Okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna remove this, and I’m gonna go reach out and go, How are you doing? Or, Hey, I saw this happens, like what’s going on? It’s been a while since I’ve been able to see you. And I love getting to keep up with friends that I just hold dearly in my heart, but we live in different places now. But whenever I do notice, okay, there’s all of these things, and I’m becoming emotionally triggered, emotionally overwhelmed. Generally, for me, I just, I have to get off right away. Because I am so sensitive to those things. And I am such a deep feeler and kind of evaluate, okay, what do I need to be taking in? What are some of the next steps that I need to take? Do I need to reach out to this person? Or do I need to just write down this other person to pray for pause and pray for them right away in that moment, you know, and then surrender and say, Okay, God, I’m going to follow you. And you know, trust you to lead me to what I need to do. That’s really

Sarah Zylstra
good. Yep, I think that’s really good. It kind of pulls us back to knowing yourself and asking those questions. Like, how much of this can I handle?

Gretchen Saffles
Yeah. And it’s my, like I said, my sister, wired totally differently than me. I mean, the things that make me just ball and weep, she would kind of look and go, like, okay, you know, like, she supports me, but it’s just, that doesn’t trigger her emotionally. But that’s how God created us. And so we, we consume things differently. You know, I consume something and I’m like, Oh, I’m so overwhelmed by this. I can’t believe it’s happening, you know, and she’s like, Gretchen, it’s okay to take a deep breath, you know, and then there’s something else that maybe is really a lot for her that I’m like, since it’s okay. And so just Yeah, knowing and knowing that God created you, in his image to reflect Him and so you don’t have to, you know, she handles it differently than I do, and that’s okay. But knowing that and being able to support each other in that, but also being faithful with how God created us to bring Him glory and our conception and are creating Yeah,

Sarah Zylstra
that’s really good. Oh, I think that’s true. I love that I the My biggest takeaway here, Gretchen is just to ask those questions just to like, maybe slow down a little bit and say, What am I what am I feeling here? Why am I feeling this? Right? How could I direct this toward God? Is there something I can do or do I need to step back or there’s just a lot, it’s just good.

Gretchen Saffles
And a lot of times when we are spending time in the Word Every day, you know, faithful to be in church, you know fellowship serving, those things will naturally be an overflow. You know, so because I think it can feel burdensome, like, what if I do, but we trust God that as we seek Him, He will guide us. And I mean, that’s what he says in His word, like, seek Me, you will find me He will guide us His Word, it’ll be a lamp into our feet and a light into our path. And so, you know, I want to encourage women like, or even whoever’s listening men to like, God takes the pressure off, when you were following him, he will lead you and wisdom, He will lead you in that fear of the Lord. And, you know, give you the discernment and the discretion that you need and those things and also he, he wires, our desires to you to want him. You know, more than we want social media. And so yes, social media is wiring our brain and all of those things. But more importantly, God has much more power to rewire our brains and our desires to be focused on him and satisfy them him.

Sarah Zylstra
Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. And so true. Just you know, asking him like, Lord helped me to desire you more, or helped me to prepare the right things. It’s because very hard to do something you don’t desire. But if you do, absolutely abbrev

Gretchen Saffles
Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Gretchen, thank

Sarah Zylstra
you so much. This has been a delight to be with you today. What again,

Gretchen Saffles
I loved it. I love talking about this. As you can tell, we could keep going so long, but I cannot wait for everybody to read the book and also to listen to all of these interviews and just glean from one another and to realize that God is working in all of our lives. He is doing a work to draw us to him and it’s it’s beautiful and we can rejoice in that. That’s good.