Ray Ortlund and Immanuel Church in Nashville believe simplicity is biblical. While opening doors to approach Christ, they try not to clutter what God is doing with programming.

“When the Lord is at work, you don’t need heavy programs,” Ortlund tells fellow pastors Ryan Kelly and Darrin Patrick in this brief new video. “When the Lord isn’t at work, you probably have to fake it.”

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Watch to see how Patrick explains the dilemma for pastors approached by well-meaning church members who want to start new programs. Kelly offers his perspective on our failure to love when we’re too busy with programs.

Ray Ortlund (ThM, Dallas Theological Seminary; MA, University of California, Berkeley; PhD, University of Aberdeen, Scotland) is president of Renewal Ministries and an Emeritus Council member of The Gospel Coalition. He founded Immanuel Church in Nashville, Tennessee, and now serves from Immanuel as pastor to pastors. Ray has authored a number of books, including The Gospel: How The Church Portrays The Beauty of Christ, Marriage and the Mystery of the Gospel, and with Sam Allberry, You’re Not Crazy: Gospel Sanity for Weary Churches. He and his wife, Jani, have four children.

Darrin Patrick served as a teaching pastor at Seacoast Church in Charleston, SC and was also the founding pastor of The Journey Church in St. Louis, MO. He authored multiple books including The Dude’s Guide to Marriage and The Dude’s Guide to Manhood.

Ryan Kelly (PhD, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam) is the pastor for preaching at Desert Springs Church in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and a Council member of The Gospel Coalition. Among other publications, he contributed to The Ashgate Research Companion on John Owen’s Theology. He and his wife, Sarah, have four children.