Today I have the privilege of interviewing Michael Kelley, an editor at Lifeway Christian Resources and author of the Threads Bible Studies The Tough Sayings of Jesus 1 & 2.
Trevin Wax: Tell us a little about your background and how Lifeway’s Threads Bible studies came about.
Michael Kelley: The Threads Bible studies rose out of a pretty extensive research project that Lifeway did, born from the simple fact that alot of young adults were disenfranchised with the church. So based on that research, 4 key values seemed to come to the top that a ministry to young adults would need to focus on. These are things like depth, community, responsibility, and connection with other generations. So all of the Threads studies try and promote these values.
As for me, I’m a lowly Texas boy, raised in the vast nothingness around Amarillo. Lots of tumbleweeds, tornadoes and cows around there. I did my graduate work at Beeson Divinity School, and served in churches in Texas and Tennessee before starting to write and speak on the road.
Trevin Wax: What has drawn you to writing about the “tough” sayings of Jesus?
Michael Kelley: It’s interesting to me how many times in my church experience that I’ve heard sermon series that skip or gloss over some of the difficult passages of Scripture.
Like how many times have I heard that we’re doing a sketch of Romans, and we hear a talk about the victory of Romans 8 and then I turn around and we’re offering our bodies as living sacrifices in Romans 12? What? It’s like Paul didn’t intend to write those 3 chapters in between.
Same thing with the gospels, I think. We like a picture of Jesus where among other things, He’s “nice.” So we gravitate towards those passages. But that leaves us with an incomplete and mishapen view of Jesus and doesn’t allow us to examine the fullness of what He taught and lived.
Trevin Wax: You’re right. I’ve been going to church all my life. I can probably think back to 20 or more sermons I’ve heard on the Prodigal Son in Luke 15. And yet, I can’t remember one sermon about the Parable of the Shrewd Manager in Luke 16. Why have we avoided this passage?
Michael Kelley: Same here, Trevin. I think the answer is there’s no waiting father in Luke 16. No loving embrace. No welcome home. Instead, we find Jesus doing something we find to be completely contrary to that – actually commending the guy in His own story for that guy’s questionable character. What can Jesus mean by that?
Trevin Wax: You talk about the difference between “flash”and “substance.” I agree that many churches have spent way too much time on the “flash” without offering enough “substance.” And yet, your Threads Bible studies have a certain amount of “flashiness” even as they contain substantive teaching. How do you think churches should move forward in offering more “substance,” while at the same time continuing to do so with excellence?
Michael Kelley: This is a good question and a tricky issue. It’s hard for all of us to definitively know the difference. When is “flash” just flash and when does it actually serve a purpose? Tough to know.
But in terms of church, I am beginning to think the more things change the more they stay the same. That is, I think the road to substance is found in the same old thing – an unwavering commitment to Scripture. And not Scripture for the sake of “having a better and more productive life,” but encountering Scripture in a deep, understandable way that embraces the inherent difficulty and mystery of faith.
Or maybe this – I have real trouble with a teacher who smiles all the time. Jesus didn’t. And church shouldn’t be a sitcom where there is an introduction, then a conflict, and everything tied up neatly at the end.
Trevin Wax: You say we need to picture Jesus as a General and ourselves in a wartime mentality. How does seeing ourselves in a battle help us have a more accurate view of Jesus?
Michael Kelley: That’s in the session about the death and resurrection of Lazarus in John 11. I think this passage puts into tension two sides of Christ. There is the side that is in a war and focuses on the ultimate victory. Jesus knew what He was moving towards, and He was willing to sacrifice Himself for the victory. That’s war-time mentality.
But I also think that we can get so caught up in that mentality that we forget that this General, so focused on the end, took time to weep with the sisters. So there’s a tension there between the war for the glory of God in the universe, and the genuine sadness at the casualties of that war.
Trevin Wax: I like how the DVD segments are short and optional – serving as supplements to the Threads study instead of being the main focus. Was this intentional? Have you found that our generation would rather have intense discussion than watch a video?
Michael Kelley: Yeah, completely intentional. I think there’s alot of groups who actually wouldn’t use the video pieces simply because they are more familiar with each other already. On the other hand, many groups may need a spark to stimulate conversation. But the goal in either case is an interactive learning environment. This, I think, is a better model for our generation – it’s a discovery style of teaching and leading. It’s participatory, where everyone goes on a journey together.
Check out Michael Kelley’s Threads Bible Studies:
Tough Sayings of Jesus 1
Tough Sayings of Jesus 2
Interview with Michael Kelley © 2008 Kingdom People blog
